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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 81

post #801 of 19540
It's been a while, but I checked my board with a multimeter and it pretty closely matched what HWInfo and (at that time) CPU-Z showed. It was closer to the software reading than to the entered BIOS voltage, in other words, possibly due to built-in LLC in the FIVR. The software readings have been the de facto "Vcore" for quite a while now, since the BIOS entered value is not usually indicative of the final actual voltage. Haswell seems a little better in that regard, due to the FIVR I'd guess, but still not exact.

The only time it becomes an issue is when someone is using adaptive, where the BIOS voltage may be significant;y lower than the actual load voltage when stress testing - for manual voltage settings it seems like the difference is on the order of a couple of hundredths, which is really nothing much - but adaptive can add a tenth or more, which is pretty significant. So someone saying they got stable at 4.6 @ 1.2V using adaptive, when it really was 1.3V under load, gives people unrealistic expectations. It's not a contest, but the more accurate information that is provided, the better it can inform people's decision making.
Edited by Forceman - 8/16/13 at 8:50pm
post #802 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BangBangPlay View Post


I am not trying to be a jerk or a complainer I just not sure that Vcore value is totally accurate. I will update HWMonitor, but I always focus on what I input into BIOS because that is the value we all control. Maybe the FIVR takes more voltage than we allow it, or maybe HWMonitor is reading or displaying the wrong value. It wouldn't be the first time HWMonitor has done it, and it's accuracy varies depending on your MB. Until we know for sure I would just keep it set the the value that everyone enters in their BIOS, or the value displayed by CPUz because that is surely what the vast majority of people have been reporting. I know this isn't a contest, but it is supposed to help people to see what values other's are using, how they are stressing, and maybe how they perform compared to others. I suppose it could also indicate better batches, but I personally feel it is totally random.

I think the results should all represent the same value, and I also think more emphasis should be placed on stability than how low people can get their voltage. Other users should be encouraged to post their screenshots, I think this only will discourage some who reported their BIOS entry and not the HW Vcore value. I place much more value on the (stable) results I have seen pictures of then the supposed results of the people who just post their numbers. Just a thought, it is your thread and your results so no worries either way man...

No, you brought up a point I missed... If I say, I want CPU voltage for normal entries, people will give me BIOS settings, but if I ask for Hwinfo voltage for screenshot verification, even if that's more accurate I'm still asking for two different things.

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post #803 of 19540
Maybe all entries should require picture verification with HWinfo/monitor?

It would be interesting to see how much vrise people are seeing, and the stability effects. Just my 2¢
post #804 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

It's been a while, but I checked my board with a multimeter and it pretty closely matched what HWInfo and (at that time) CPU-Z showed. It was closer to the software reading than to the entered BIOS voltage, in other words, possibly due to built-in LLC in the FIVR. The software readings have been the de facto "Vcore" for quite a while now, since the BIOS entered value is not usually indicative of the final actual voltage. Haswell seems a little better in that regard, due to the FIVR I'd guess, but still not exact.

The only time it becomes an issue is when someone is using adaptive, where the BIOS voltage may be significant;y lower than the actual load voltage when stress testing - for manual voltage settings it seems like the difference is on the order of a couple of hundredths, which is really nothing much - but adaptive can add a tenth or more, which is pretty significant. So someone saying they got stable at 4.6 @ 1.2V using adaptive, when it really was 1.3V under load, gives people unrealistic expectations. It's not a contest, but the more accurate information that is provided, the better it can inform people's decision making.

So is your 1.335V the Vcore or what you entered in BIOS? I only ask because in one of the few pictures you have posted of your results I see 1.344V while running Cinebench. I just wanted to make sure people practice what they preach.
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post #805 of 19540
I've had a bunch of different Vcore settings as I've tweaked the secondary voltages. Right now I'm at 1.32V in the BIOS, which ends up being 1.332V in AVX loads. But I need 1.37V for AVX2.

Interesting. If I set 1.32V it goes up to 1.332V in AVX, but if I bump it just to 1.325V it goes up to 1.344V in AVX. Almost like there are levels of Vcore, it's not just adding some set amount to the BIOS voltage.
Edited by Forceman - 8/17/13 at 3:42pm
post #806 of 19540
Thread Starter 

The extra voltage applies seems to vary depending on how much voltage you're putting. The more you set, the more extra voltage.

 

 

Seems like my crash was indeed either ring bus or ram related.

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post #807 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I've had a bunch of different Vcore settings as I've tweaked the secondary voltages. Right now I'm at 1.32V in the BIOS, which ends up being 1.332V in AVX loads. But I need 1.37V for AVX2.

Interesting. If I set 1.32V it goes up to 1.332V in AVX, but if I bump it just to 1.325V it goes up to 1.344V in AVX. Almost like there are levels of Vcore, it's not just adding some set amount to the BIOS voltage.

I do the same, just some people ask us to take their word on their settings and other take the time to post proof of their OCs. I know that tweaking will always change settings, I just have a hard time believing that everyone is reporting HWs fluctuating Vcore value for their OCs.

I say fluctuating because that is what it does even while in Manual mode. While in Adaptive VID fluctuates, but it remains static in Manual like it should. I think HWmonitor and HWinfo are reporting the wrong value for the core on Haswell. LLC doesn't effect the offset according to a few tests I ran, and that offset doesn't change if the BIOS voltage is altered slightly. In other words when I drop my voltage from 1.285v to 1.280v it still reports 1.296V while stressing. I am still skeptical that this value represents how much voltage is being used by the cores. Why does it fluctuate in Manual voltage mode and it also reports 0.000v while sitting at desktop in HWinfo while at idle? I know the CPU can enter low voltage states while sleeping, but it can't run on no voltage. Either the value is off or it is just wrong.
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post #808 of 19540
Just have a question about stress testing, I think it's been covered elsewhere and I have a pretty good grasp but I just want to confirm.

I'm coming from a 2600K system which I had clocked up to 4.9Ghz as my max overclock and back then I was just using IBT and Prime 95 for stressing.

So on the 4770K it seems like most recommendations are to use AIDA64 for stressing, but it doesn't seem like it realy pushes the CPU as hard.

Here's what I've done so far: Set Vcore to 1.25 and could boot into windows with the multi up to 47. BSOD at 48.

Currently trying to get stable at 4.5Ghz as a start and then I'll push for more.

At 1.2 Vcore I set 45 as the multi. IBT passed with no problems but then running blend in Prime 95 (Version 27.9) failed after less than an hour. Tried again at Vcore 1.21 and lasted a little longer.

Currently Vcore is set at 1.22 and Multi 45. IBT passed no problems. Prime 95 V27.9 lasted a little under 4 hours. Temps maxed out around 83C.

Then I got curious and found I still had Prime 95 V26.6 on my USB from when I overclocked my Sandybridge. So far it's been running Blend on Prime95 V26.6 for the last 10 hours and temps are considerably lower at 68C so it's obviously not as stressful as the newer version. Maybe it doesn't use AVX.

I haven't run AIDA for long but after an hour max temps got to was about 70C.

So I'm just wondering what stress test should I really go by as there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions between going with AIDA or Prime 95 and for how long?

Thanks.

Oh, btw all of the above is with my RAM at it's rated speed of 2400Mhz which is a prerequisite for me and this is on my sig rig.
post #809 of 19540
As for stress testing, a lot of users including me found that AIDA64,IBT,Prime95 is not a the best basis for absolute stability, some are getting BSOD's in gaming while passing all of those tests. I personally pass AIDA64 but fail at x.264 encoding unless I add more vcore.
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post #810 of 19540
This photo shows the Vcore value at 0.000V in HWinfo64 while idle at the desktop.


This photo is taken right after a Cinbench run and notice that the Vcore #3 is at 0.000V but the VID values have downclocked tp 0.800V like they should while in Adaptive with C States enabled.


This last photo shows the difference between the both while at load running Cinebench on Adaptive. The Vcore is at 1.296V and the VID is at 1.281V like it is set BIOS. IMO the VID is behaving like the Vcore should and the Vcore is displaying something different, or an erroneous value.


So why does it display 0.000V while at idle on the desktop?
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