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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 877

post #8761 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

That's because at 15minute per fft prime doesn't cycle through all the fft's for 8hours. Being stable on prime for 8hours isn't a stable OC, just 8 hours of stress smile.gif
So you basically did not complete the test.

There is also dozens of OLD OC threads where a user can pass 17hours of prime and fails on 18hours. Or someone who passes 10 hours but fails 12

This is an indication that your OC cant handle the situation it was put in, has nothing to do with the quality of the test.
Yeah prime reallllllly puts cooling to the test biggrin.gif I miss seeing my 3770k top out at 62C on a full prime stress test

I'm talking about Haswell, not "OLD OC threads"....As I said in my comment: I'm talking about people who ran 12+ hours of Prime, then hit a BSOD when they started watching YouTube, or playing a game, or whatever their normal activities on a PC happened to be....I've read those posts that you're referring to, and those are not what I am talking about. Please, take a second to read my posts before you get into such a hurry to disagree/argue with what I am saying.

With Haswell, its pretty unnecessary to run hours and hours of Prime, when there are better ways of testing for stability without generating ridiculous amounts of heat - a fact which has been discussed numerous times in this particular thread....It's more beneficial to test for stability under conditions that are similar to your personal activities. thumb.gif
post #8762 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

The relation was people test their memory tests instantly to check for memory errors. Yet with their CPU they accept less than full stability and just deem it "stable"

Prime isn't outdated and you did not grasp the concept.

If you bsod at 18 hours but not 16hours obviously your overclock isn't stable. Pretty simple concept.

It's not that prime isn't reliable it's that at a certain FFT when your computer is stressed it can not handle that situation. I don't see what's hard to understand? tongue.gif Is prime creating an unstable situation that youre OC which handles notepad and msword properly but primes outdated program causes you to crash? biggrin.gif

Excess Heat =\= Unstable Overclock
post #8763 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze2210 View Post

I'm talking about Haswell, not "OLD OC threads"....As I said in my comment: I'm talking about people who ran 12+ hours of Prime, then hit a BSOD when they started watching YouTube, or playing a game, or whatever their normal activities on a PC happened to be....I've read those posts that you're referring to, and those are not what I am talking about. Please, take a second to read my posts before you get into such a hurry to disagree/argue with what I am saying.

With Haswell, its pretty unnecessary to run hours and hours of Prime, when there are better ways of testing for stability without generating ridiculous amounts of heat - a fact which has been discussed numerous times in this particular thread....It's more beneficial to test for stability under conditions that are similar to your personal activities. thumb.gif

OLD OC thread is an example to refer to the situation.

Sure if those people committed the user error of not configuring the prime stress test correctly, it really is not primes fault.

The "better ways of testing for stability without generating ridiculous amounts of heat" can also lead to this
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawII View Post

Ok been stable at 1.36 volts and 4.5 for a month now get 124 bsod in BF4 ? I hate BF4 ran aram 3 all day and night no bsod go figure:o

At the end of the day, no point in using the word stable if your stability can't run a variation of programs or stress test. I get what you are saying about the heat generated, but you need to understand my perspective on the definition of what stable is tongue.gif

Also, I do appologize, I'm not sitting in front of a computer staring at a browser with just OCN open, I do skip words, I do miss lines I am simply conversating. If you can't handle going back and forth sharing opinions or views that's fine. Just understand this is a forum and what we put out of our thought allows another user to read and come up with either a question or find an answer to one already
  
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post #8764 of 19566
Not sure why you think I didn't "grasp" something.

So tell me, what's your definition of Prime stable then? What do you strive for and accept. As soon as you tell me, I'll call you out and say it's worthless because it's 2 hours less than what I had in my mind as being stable.

I've got no problems if you want to live in the past and run these programs. You're in a minority and that fact doesn't make you wrong or right, just a minority.

add: also, why do you need to resort to msword or notepad examples? From the few posts you've now made I'm starting to think you don't really grasp reality yourself, you throw weird examples (example you gave me previously was the use of 2v vcore).
Edited by error-id10t - 1/19/14 at 11:54pm
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post #8765 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

The relation was people test their memory tests instantly to check for memory errors. Yet with their CPU they accept less than full stability and just deem it "stable"

Prime isn't outdated and you did not grasp the concept.

If you bsod at 18 hours but not 16hours obviously your overclock isn't stable. Pretty simple concept.

It's not that prime isn't reliable it's that at a certain FFT when your computer is stressed it can not handle that situation. I don't see what's hard to understand? tongue.gif Is prime creating an unstable situation that youre OC which handles notepad and msword properly but primes outdated program causes you to crash? biggrin.gif

You fail to account for how Haswell is too different from previous generations to use prime in my opinion. I mean, they took a part of the motherboard and then slapped it onto the CPU. (FIVR) that's a big change and it accounts for the added heat of Haswell. Well, part of it. The other half is Intel cheaping out and not soldering chips under a 95w TDP. Anyways, with that in account, the added heat of Prime just isn't necessary. Why would you want to stress your chip past your normal uses? Not to mention you are severly limit your chips overclock-ability by being "prime stable." As Cyro stated, he would have to lower his OC 400Mhz just to deal with the heat of Prime. That's just stupid. Why not get what temps you can actually expect from day to day and have a higher OC with possibly less voltage? That's just my thoughts.

On another note, I used x264 to find a stable overclock on my 3930k and it has handled everything I have thrown at it. Passed 33x times as I was sleeping and hasn't BSOD'd once. And dem temps are awesome. 1.425v 4.9 stable and don't see temps over 55c
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

OLD OC thread is an example to refer to the situation.

Sure if those people committed the user error of not configuring the prime stress test correctly, it really is not primes fault.

The "better ways of testing for stability without generating ridiculous amounts of heat" can also lead to this
At the end of the day, no point in using the word stable if your stability can't run a variation of programs or stress test. I get what you are saying about the heat generated, but you need to understand my perspective on the definition of what stable is tongue.gif

Also, I do appologize, I'm not sitting in front of a computer staring at a browser with just OCN open, I do skip words, I do miss lines I am simply conversating. If you can't handle going back and forth sharing opinions or views that's fine. Just understand this is a forum and what we put out of our thought allows another user to read and come up with either a question or find an answer to one already

So, you're telling me that if I'm not prime stable but it is stable in my uses I'm not stable. Huh, I guess I never thought of it that way. rolleyes.gif
post #8766 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

Not sure why you think I didn't "grasp" something.

So tell me, what's your definition of Prime stable then? What do you strive for and accept. As soon as you tell me, I'll call you out and say it's worthless because it's 2 hours less than what I had in my mind as being stable.

I've got no problems if you want to live in the past and run these programs. You're in a minority and that fact doesn't make you wrong or right, just a minority.

add: also, why do you need to resort to msword or notepad examples? From the few posts you've now made I'm starting to think you don't really grasp reality yourself, you throw weird examples (example you gave me previously was the use of 2v vcore).

Ouch so you misread my posts and attack me personality? I would ask you your education level and actual life accomplishments but that would make me as tiny as you. Belittling someone or condescending just shows defensive stance seeing as you feel insulted somehow.

Anyway, yeah that simple concept that you couldn't grasp was. If you can run a program for 5hours but it crashes at 6hours, then your obviously not stable. No need to start grabbing bits and pieces out of context from other posts to make a subjective view some form of justification for your personal attack
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

You fail to account for how Haswell is too different from previous generations to use prime in my opinion. I mean, they took a part of the motherboard and then slapped it onto the CPU. (FIVR) that's a big change and it accounts for the added heat of Haswell. Well, part of it. The other half is Intel cheaping out and not soldering chips under a 95w TDP. Anyways, with that in account, the added heat of Prime just isn't necessary. Why would you want to stress your chip past your normal uses? Not to mention you are severly limit your chips overclock-ability by being "prime stable." As Cyro stated, he would have to lower his OC 400Mhz just to deal with the heat of Prime. That's just stupid. Why not get what temps you can actually expect from day to day and have a higher OC with possibly less voltage? That's just my thoughts.

On another note, I used x264 to find a stable overclock on my 3930k and it has handled everything I have thrown at it. Passed 33x times as I was sleeping and hasn't BSOD'd once. And dem temps are awesome. 1.425v 4.9 stable and don't see temps over 55c
So, you're telling me that if I'm not prime stable but it is stable in my uses I'm not stable. Huh, I guess I never thought of it that way. rolleyes.gif

I understand what you are saying and how the architecture of the chip has changed. With disregard to the heat, if the computer can't run a certain process and it crashes how is that acceptable? It's like playing BF4 and not crashing but as soon as you use a tank and fire a missile you instantly bsod
Edited by INCREDIBLEHULK - 1/20/14 at 12:01am
  
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post #8767 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

Ouch so you misread my posts and attack me personality? I would ask you your education level and actual life accomplishments but that would make me as tiny as you. Belittling someone or condescending just shows defensive stance seeing as you feel insulted somehow.

Anyway, yeah that simple concept that you couldn't grasp was. If you can run a program for 5hours but it crashes at 6hours, then your obviously not stable. No need to start grabbing bits and pieces out of context from other posts to make a subjective view some form of justification for your personal attack
I understand what you are saying and how the architecture of the chip has changed. With disregard to the heat, if the computer can't run a certain process and it crashes how is that acceptable? It's like playing BF4 and not crashing but as soon as you use a tank and fire a missile you instantly bsod

How are you sure that being "prime stable" ensures that you can run any process without crashing? I believe many of the posters have been trying to make this point, among others.
post #8768 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

Ouch so you misread my posts and attack me personality? I would ask you your education level and actual life accomplishments but that would make me as tiny as you. Belittling someone or condescending just shows defensive stance seeing as you feel insulted somehow.

Anyway, yeah that simple concept that you couldn't grasp was. If you can run a program for 5hours but it crashes at 6hours, then your obviously not stable. No need to start grabbing bits and pieces out of context from other posts to make a subjective view some form of justification for your personal attack
I understand what you are saying and how the architecture of the chip has changed. With disregard to the heat, if the computer can't run a certain process and it crashes how is that acceptable? It's like playing BF4 and not crashing but as soon as you use a tank and fire a missile you instantly bsod

How is it not acceptable? I will never use something that stressful on this machine and it is stable in everything I do. Stability is very, very subjective. If you want to be prime stable for 24+ hours and I want to be stable in my uses, that's fine. However, don't try to force your version of stability on everyone else. Again, I am stable in every use this machine will ever be used for, why the heck should I be prime stable and subject my chip to temps it will never, ever see?

I fail to see the BF4 reference because if you BSOD instantly getting in a tank (which is playing BF4) then you aren't stable in BF4.

EDIT: What is someone only uses their system for 5 hours and will never see that BSOD at 6 hours? If that not acceptable for their uses? Again, stability is subjective.
Edited by jameyscott - 1/20/14 at 12:08am
post #8769 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

How is it not acceptable? I will never use something that stressful on this machine and it is stable in everything I do. Stability is very, very subjective. If you want to be prime stable for 24+ hours and I want to be stable in my uses, that's fine. However, don't try to force your version of stability on everyone else. Again, I am stable in every use this machine will ever be used for, why the heck should I be prime stable and subject my chip to temps it will never, ever see?

I fail to see the BF4 reference because if you BSOD instantly getting in a tank (which is playing BF4) then you aren't stable in BF4.

I just try to stick with dictionary definitions of words.

Stability isn't subjective. When you have a stable job, you receive stable paychecks. You don't randomly get payed at different days of the month.

Just because your computer can handle the applications you run on it and can not handle the applications I run on mine, It is not fair for you to call your overclock "stable". It's acceptable for what you do, but bending the definition of words seems wrong. Stability isn't subjective at all, thats more of an opinion. There's no 50% stable or 98.7% stable, its 0% or 100%

So is everyone relying on x264 to find "acceptable stability" and just increasing vcore if any bsod occurs or have you guys came up with a process beyond this to test haswell further?
Edited by INCREDIBLEHULK - 1/20/14 at 12:08am
  
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post #8770 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

So is everyone relying on x264 to find "acceptable stability" and just increasing vcore if any bsod occurs or have you guys came up with a process beyond this to test haswell further?

I haven't had a BSOD after being x264 stable. However, people who have in certain applications only need .002 to gain full stability for their uses. I don't see a problem with that. It's not like they are BSODing every hour after passing 20x of x264. They might BSOD after 5-6 hours and then increase it by such a small increment that it doesn't change anything besides not BSODing again.
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