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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 938

post #9371 of 19539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

Thanks for the response. Well my 4.7 core passes cinebench and 30 mins of XTU. I dnt care for burning it up with hours of prime. I can play BF4 at the listied settings. Normally I can expose instability unless I am just a small voltage adjusment away.

I ran the pc for 2 whole days before I ever touched the Cache. I am certain the instability was introduced when i decided to raise cache. it doesnt BSOD it does a freeze thing like when you try bad ram timings. But I do notice a temp increase.

the cache will oc up to 4.4 if the core is lower.

Yeah, your thermal headroom isn't there because you're not using Prime, you're getting the higher temps from gaming. Well, I don't know what temp range you consider to be too high or too low. Often I can just tell people, stop using Prime and use x264 and boom, there is your thermal headroom.

 

I'm afraid there's not much left to add from my first post though. I would give 1.28, even 1.3v a shot to see if that let's you get the next multiplier for uncore. Past that, I just don't feel it's worth it. Let me know what you end up doing. :thumb: 

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post #9372 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

Thanks for the response. Well my 4.7 core passes cinebench and 30 mins of XTU. I dnt care for burning it up with hours of prime. I can play BF4 at the listied settings. Normally I can expose instability unless I am just a small voltage adjusment away.

I ran the pc for 2 whole days before I ever touched the Cache. I am certain the instability was introduced when i decided to raise cache. it doesnt BSOD it does a freeze thing like when you try bad ram timings. But I do notice a temp increase.

the cache will oc up to 4.4 if the core is lower. I read how some ppl get that last 100mhz core by dropping ram speeds. My chip doesnt seem to care what I do with the ram 1300-2400 gain me nothing.

again I appreciate it. thumb.gif

You don't have to burn it up with hours of prime.
Just learn how to use the program and you can test 5-10 minutes instead of spending 30min-1hour on stress tests.

Yesterday I ran x264 for basically 20minutes, I loaded prime95 for fun, I set 90% of system ram 5minute cycle and ran 1344-1344 fft size, got a bsod in not even a minute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Yeah, your thermal headroom isn't there because you're not using Prime, you're getting the higher temps from gaming. Well, I don't know what temp range you consider to be too high or too low. Often I can just tell people, stop using Prime and use x264 and boom, there is your thermal headroom.

I'm afraid there's not much left to add from my first post though. I would give 1.28, even 1.3v a shot to see if that let's you get the next multiplier for uncore. Past that, I just don't feel it's worth it. Let me know what you end up doing. thumb.gif

You are right in the sense prime delivers unrealistic amounts of heat to the chip. It's also sensless to run x264 overnight to look for a bsod when prime can create a bsod in 1/16th the amount of time.
Most people don't even know how to run the proper stress test on prime, there should be a prime version now with the haswell support too biggrin.gif
  
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post #9373 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by chumanga View Post

Oh, for me it dont work vdrop at manual mode, i try with this c-states enable and then auto and same thing, my vid stay at full 1.15v when 800mhz.

People saying to trust the vcore instead of VID in hwinfo64 but for my viewing vcore ever show to me when idle 0.000v in any voltage mode(manual,adaptive,auto), and VID show ~0,670v when idle in adaptive mode. If im not wrong the guy of Asus in video say that manual mode in Asus board gonna be full time max vcore same when idle 800mhz.

VID is not Vcore

You want to see your Vcore. It can be difficult on Asus boards because the sensors are all wonky and weird (surprised that they messed it up so badly still)
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post #9374 of 19539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post


You don't have to burn it up with hours of prime.
Just learn how to use the program and you can test 5-10 minutes instead of spending 30min-1hour on stress tests.

Yesterday I ran x264 for basically 20minutes, I loaded prime95 for fun, I set 90% of system ram 5minute cycle and ran 1344-1344 fft size, got a bsod in not even a minute.
You are right in the sense prime delivers unrealistic amounts of heat to the chip. It's also sensless to run x264 overnight to look for a bsod when prime can create a bsod in 1/16th the amount of time.
Most people don't even know how to run the proper stress test on prime, there should be a prime version now with the haswell support too biggrin.gif

If he's thermally limited while playing a video game, he sure as hell can't use Prime or his computer will crater. That's the point. Sure, you can run Prime for a less amount of time, but if you're pushing voltage to the max, it's not feasible no matter how short the test is because the temps are too bad. This is why Prime is not feasible.

 

There is a Prime with Haswell designs. 28.3 and it is hotter than IBT.

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post #9375 of 19539
Quote:
Well, Prime has been mentioned, I thought "outdated" stressing programs were still useful.... wink.gif

I'm not calling Prime or Linx outdated. I'm calling old, crippled versions of Prime and Linx/Linpack outdated. That counts for Prime 27.9, 28.1, as well as IBT and OCCT versions of linpack. Versions that are not outdated would be ~28.3? and Linx 0.6.5 or newer
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post #9376 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

If he's thermally limited while playing a video game, he sure as hell can't use Prime or his computer will crater. That's the point. Sure, you can run Prime for a less amount of time, but if you're pushing voltage to the max, it's not feasible no matter how short the test is because the temps are too bad. This is why Prime is not feasible.

There is a Prime with Haswell designs. 28.3 and it is hotter than IBT.

I hear you and I understand people want their "thermally allowed overclocks"

Stability isn't designed to accommodate inferior cooling, if people want to push 1.45v on air I'm doubtful any hardcore stress test will consider their temps.

I just don't appreciate people cluelessly bashing prime when they don't know it's use or how useful it is. I also get people want to play their video games, my standpoint is in a real world environment where you don't want to use the cpu intensive applications to do work with a "almost stable OC"
Edited by INCREDIBLEHULK - 1/29/14 at 2:50pm
  
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post #9377 of 19539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post


I hear you and I understand people want their "thermally allowed overclocks"

Stability isn't designed to accommodate inferior cooling, if people want to push 1.45v on air I'm doubtful any hardcore stress test will consider their temps.

I just don't appreciate people clueless bashing prime when they don't know it's use or how useful it is. I also get people want to play their video games, my standpoint is in a real world environment where you don't want to use the cpu intensive applications to do work with a "almost stable OC"

The motto of this thread is, stable is stable enough if you feel it's stable enough. If you can't even tell for yourself whether you think something is stable enough even after testing, that's on you, not my system. The idea of Prime being stable is arbitrary. Here I'm trying to get people to have the highest OC they can at a stability they feel is acceptable.

 

Prime might be useful because it saves time in testing, but passing a large amount of x264 is going to be fine all the same. You can make up the 'defciency' of using an easier test by simply running it for longer periods of time and adding a more variety of testing.

 

Quote:
'I must pass all stress tests!'
This kind of thinking might had merit in previous generation CPUs, but in Haswell at least, it is a load of bollocks. As you can see from my chart below, the range of temperatures vary wildy from test to test. We are talking about a 45C difference in temperatures. If I had stuck to Linpack or go home, I would be down from 4.6ghz to 4.1ghz. (This is backed up by testing.) This is insane. Linpack is so ridiculously hot, so completely out there, it's not worth counting. The mentality of passing all tests for the sake of stability is more irrational than you might presume at first glance. That kind of mentality means passing whatever test people happen to be able to make. If nobody made Linpack, then you would think your CPU is stable. If somebody made Linpack 2.0 that makes Linpack 1.0 look like child's play, then you might as well never overclock, because Linpack is throttling a few people at STOCK. Indeed, Linpack uses AVX2 which is a new instruction set, but so does x264, and that is one of the coldest benchmarks. Stressing AVX2 set doesn't nessesarily mean high temps and failing Linpack doesn't mean AVX2 instability. And how will you know when to stop stress testing under the original ideology? You can only estimate. Computers are built for using, not for stress testing. If you're running Linpack, and you're under the opinion that you must pass all possible tests, you need to update the math logic for Linpack and run it at MAX setting. That means using up all of your available ram for the largest problem size.
 
Run 2-3 different types of stressing programs, and then use your computer normally. If you crash, then it's not stable. What's stable for you might not be stable enough for me. Some people need 100% reliability because of their jobs. Some people can handle a Bsod once a week. NO, saying that you want to pass Linpack 'just in case you use your CPU to extreme limits' is complete hooey. Prime95 is already ridiculous. Linpack is ridiculous on top of ridiculous on top of unicorn blood powered by the core of the sun, worshipped by space aliens. What if there comes out a new normal application that uses as much CPU power as Linpack? Well, there is no hint of that happening, so this is just a 'what if'. Well, what if there comes out a new application that throttles you at stock? Then let's all downclock our CPUs! If you insist on passing every test just because, fine, just don't expect any half-decent overclock. If I hit 95C+ easily at 1.2v with D14, there is no way anybody can hit 1.25v+ with Linpack set to max even after delid and x60 Kraken. And guess what, the average voltage setting for the OC results chart is 1.3v, so what does this tell you? You'll be lucky to stay on 1.25v after delid and liquid cooling and having a stable setting because between Prime 28.3, which discovers stability issues like a god and Linpack at max which raises temps like a god, you will be severely hampered by the combination of both tests.
 
Don't give me that 'If you crash on anything, you're unstable, period' crap. Anything is decided by whatever program people decided to make. And if your definition of the word stable means not crashing in anything, ever, then I don't care about what you call stability. You will never know if something is stable by your own criteria because if you pass Prime for 500 hours, what's to say the 501th hour will be stable? That's right, you stop at some arbitrary time. I care about the computer not crashing often enough to annoy me. And that could be once a week, once a month, once a year, never, every 5 seconds. But as long as I'm fine with it, that's all that matters because it's MY CPU.
 
If you're ever Bsoding 'too much', all you have to do, if you are in the heat of the moment, is to lower the multiplier by one and BOOM, rock solid stability.

Edited by Darkwizzie - 1/29/14 at 2:56pm
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post #9378 of 19539
Quote:
A stable overclock can handle any real world application or situation. Not only what you use it for.

That's what i go for; hence OC passes every single program that i know of aside from linpack and prime (with avx enabled)
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post #9379 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post


I'm sorry but using delusional justifications for thing to make your argument correct is not very good frown.gif
Stable means stable. 0% stable and 100% stable. Misinterpretation of the word is to ones own intelligence.
Creating a thread and posting your opinion doesn't make you right, doesn't make your opinion fact. Arguing semantics with one person would be stupid when there is millions who understand the definition.

sta·ble1
ˈstābəl/
adjective
adjective: stable; comparative adjective: stabler; superlative adjective: stablest

1.
not likely to change or fail; firmly established.
"a stable relationship"
synonyms: secure, solid, strong, steady, firm, sure, steadfast, unwavering, unvarying, unfaltering, unfluctuating; More

Example:
Receiving a stable paycheck means you get paid every week. Doesn't mean one week your paycheck will magically disappear.

And how likely is likely and how unlikely is unlikely?

THAT'S RIGHT IT'S ALL DOWN TO PERSONAL OPINION.

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Undelwalt (2017)
(29 items)
 
 
Celapaleis (2013)
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD 800 2xKrk Rokit 6 G2 Blue Yeti (Grey) Rode PSA-1 Arm 
Other
Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
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Samsung Pro Series 840 256gb (Celapaleis) 1 TB Samsung Drive (Pack Yak) Samsung Pro Series 850 256gb (Celapaleis Reprise) Phoenix Down (External Backup) 
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post #9380 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

And how likely is likely and how unlikely is unlikely?

THAT'S RIGHT IT'S ALL DOWN TO PERSONAL OPINION.

If you want to go to a college professor to argue 1+1=11 that is your own problem. You just need to accept what the word means and not what you want it to mean because you made a "fancy thread" thumb.gif

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, just don't be ignorant and oblivious that FACTS are FACTS and OPINIONS are OPINIONS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

That's what i go for; hence OC passes every single program that i know of aside from linpack and prime (with avx enabled)

Agreed, if your OC can handle everything it's practically stable. If your OC can only handle what you do, it ___works for you___ which does not mean it's STABLE
  
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