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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 945

post #9441 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

I believe he is referring to older versions of prime that didn't support avx2.

EDIT: Also updated profile pic to best cat gif evar.

I know what he is referring to, but it still doesn't explain why it would be "unsupported" for stress testing. Like Asus was saying you can't test with Prime because it doesn't work with Haswell, as if Haswell calculates differently than Ivy or Sandy. Sure it doesn't test AVX2, but that shouldn't have any affect on its ability to test other instructions.
post #9442 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

I believe he is referring to older versions of prime that didn't support avx2.

EDIT: Also updated profile pic to best cat gif evar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I've never understood the whole "unsupported" thing with Prime95 and Haswell. Prime is doing the same calculations it has always done, why would it suddenly now be "incompatible" with a new CPU? Makes no sense.
Indeed, jameyscott mentioned it.

"It uses Haswell's new fused-multiply-add instructions for a little more CPU stress" "You need to pay careful attention to the details of the tests its running. For me with 27.9 FFT runs 9000 iterations using AVX while 28.1 runs 36,000 iterations (4x as many) using FMA3. " <- from a different thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I know what he is referring to, but it still doesn't explain why it would be "unsupported". Like Asus was saying you can't test with Prime because it doesn't work with Haswell, as if Haswell calculates differently than Ivy or Sandy.
I was under the impression it did calculate a tad bit different than sandy and ivy. I did not mean for "haswell support" to mean unsupported but to refer to the way prime gives the workload since the slight different architecture
  
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post #9443 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I know what he is referring to, but it still doesn't explain why it would be "unsupported". Like Asus was saying you can't test with Prime because it doesn't work with Haswell, as if Haswell calculates differently than Ivy or Sandy.

They probably just said that because they didn't want to deal with a influx of RMA's due to the voltage being shot through their mobo's when running Adaptive tongue.gif
post #9444 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

They probably just said that because they didn't want to deal with a influx of RMA's due to the voltage being shot through their mobo's when running Adaptive tongue.gif

That's exactly what I think. The voltage and temp spike caused by Prime is why they recommended to not use it, nothing at all to do with its ability to test stability. Asus even recommended Aida, which is ridiculously easy to pass.
post #9445 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

That's exactly what I think. The voltage and temp spike caused by Prime is why they recommended to not use it, nothing at all to do with its ability to test stability. Asus even recommended Aida, which is ridiculously easy to pass.

And coincidently doesn't cause AVX2 voltage spikes in adaptive haha
post #9446 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

That's exactly what I think. The voltage and temp spike caused by Prime is why they recommended to not use it, nothing at all to do with its ability to test stability. Asus even recommended Aida, which is ridiculously easy to pass.

If I want to have Prime95 v27.9 or v28.3 stable and thermaly acceptable I need to lower overclock from 4500 to 4300. If most people do that, we would see really low average overclocks. People would complain ... Bad for business ...
post #9447 of 19540
I think there's actually quite some use in using such fft lenghs for focus testing - I just don't agree with burning fft 8k and avx2 linpack max RAM.
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post #9448 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post


That's exactly what I think. The voltage and temp spike caused by Prime is why they recommended to not use it, nothing at all to do with its ability to test stability. Asus even recommended Aida, which is ridiculously easy to pass.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post


And coincidently doesn't cause AVX2 voltage spikes in adaptive haha
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

It's this false dichotomy: You either want to pass 28.3 Prime at the arbitrary length of time Hulk wants, or you're not stable and you play Pokemon gold and you're not able to open 50 tabs. Which is obviously contradictory. Seeing as to how many of us OC Cpus to play games, if a game can run BF3 or BF4 it can probably run 50 tabs. This is a fallacy.

 

Deciding which stress test is acceptable is arbitrary without some sort of scientific study. 28.3 Prime? Why not Linpack? Why not IBT? Why not OCCT? No? Just Prime? Anything else won't do? Then Prime for how long? 12 hours? 24 hours? 48 hours? How long do you run before you call an overclock stable? You go off of some arbitrary number. Who is to say the 50th hour won't Bsod? That's right, we can't know. By your standards, prime must be run infinitely to be sure it will never Bsod. This is the first argument I make. Your idea of stability is nowhere near as concrete as a dictionary definition as much as you try to make it seem. You're going off of personal opinions and feelings and trying to make it seem objective by sticking the definition of the word 'stable' in it. Two can play this game. But it's a fallacious argument so I won't engage in it.

I run chess all the time. Out of all of you, I probably load my CPU with more 24/7 hour load and stress than the large majority of you. 100% load, all cores, all night. Gaming all day. If I had an instability I can't stand, I would have noticed in the first week at the very most. It's been over a month, two months.

 

You either run Prime for a lesser amount of time, or you subsitute with x264 and run for a longer period of time. Only with the latter, you bypass the ridiculous temps which are hotter than IBT at max. Who is to say you even HAVE to use a stress test? You don't, pure and simple. All you gotta do is to run every program you'll run and start using your compute normally. If you don't crash in one month, you won't crash. And if you do crash, make adjustments.

 

Now, we can make this case with or without mentioning my age, my money (which I earned myself to buy my own PC your highness), and what games I play which is really none of your concern.

 

Stable - Ok, we can define this as not likely to fail. I'm fine with that definition. The issue is, how do we tell if a CPU is not likely to fail? This is a statement about probability. At what percentage chance of failure is something likely to fail, and at what point is something not likely to fail, and at what cutoff point is something neither likely nor likely to fail? You don't know, because deciding it is arbitrary. This is not dealing with the literal definition of the term, but the usage of the word 'stable' and how you consider something to be falling into the category of being stable. You have a hell of a lot of work to do go from:

 

  1. Stable means not likely to fail
  2. Therefore, any CPU not passing 28.3 Prime after 12 hours is considered unstable.

 

Point one does not logically lead to point 2. Because let's face it: If I get a Bsod every hour, is that likely to fail or not likely? You cannot objectively give me an answer. You can give your own subjective personal opinions on this matter. But then it's all down to personal opinion and referencing the dictionary definition is futile. And switching my argument to an attack on dictionaries is a logical fallacy called the Straw-man. Sure, it will make you much happier to say I'm disagreeing with the definition of your dictionary, as that would make this an easy argument for you to win. But that's not the case I'm making.

 

Let's think about this. Your own definition features words that are subjected to opinion. You cannot scientifically or logically prove that some level of failure rate is "likely" and some level is "not likely". Semantics is very important. You're the one bringing up a dictionary into this. To turn around and try to trivialize my points when semantics was your entire argument, that's contradictory.

Furthermore, even if the idea of stable nessesarily and objectively and logically means, a CPU that passes 12 hours of 28.3 Prime (13 hours not needed, just 12. Not 11. 12. Not 11.9hours, you need all 12.) exactly, that doesn't give your points and more relevance. You see, that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about raising that multiplier to the highest you can without experiencing stability you cannot tolerate.

 

You are welcome to stick by Prime. You're welcome to list your opinion. Once. You are even more welcome to start your own thread about Ultra Haswell Stability. You can even start a stability contest, I don't care. But if you're going to lurk here and continue to post things here despite disagreeing with me, it seems you are here to troll. Because you know it will cause conflict over and over and over, and you know it's easier to have your insulting posts removed but harder you get you banned from a thread. I'm asking you to do the right thing which minimizes conflict and makes everybody happy. if you have an Ultra Haswell Stability club or thread, I promise I will not go there to seek trouble. I'm asking you reciprocate.

 

The reason why I used large fonts was because you did not understand the case I was making. I was talking about the application of the word, not the definition of the word. And then you started talking about how not agreeing with your dictionary is unintelligent and ignorant (which isn't even nessesarily true). And I repeated it again, so I put it in large font because you don't seem to understand what I was saying. By the time you did (I think), you went into full-troll mode attacking my intelligence, personality, maturity, and so forth. The irony is, you were there talking about how I was using simple words, childish words, but you failed to understand those simple words conveyed a long-winded point.

 

Here, under this thread, over 120 people have had overclocks they are fine with. If we're happy with it, we're happy with it. We don't care about your ideas about "stability". We just want to enjoy our computers and the performance it provides. If we're happy, it's not up to you to judge. If we like a Bsod every 3 minutes, then we like a Bsod every 3 minutes. It's a matter of preference and you have no business attacking us for our own preferences.

How many on this thread do you think actually agree with you completely that your way is the only way to go? Basically nobody. But others decide to hold back and prevent WWIII. In the end, this is my thread and I'd like the method to be done my way. You want it your way? Get your own thread.

When you debate a topic it is wise to leave personal attacks out of it and stick to the core concepts up to debate. I think you're even more sly - you will be passive-aggressive the entire duration of this thread's existence so that you are enough to be a nuisance but not quite enough to warrant a restraining order from this thread. Have the maturity to not resort to ad-hominem attacks.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 1/30/14 at 4:11am
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post #9449 of 19540
Quote:
You're avoiding conflict out of self-interest, not because you don't know the answer. We can't both be right.

If you want me to take sides; I don't agree with your approach here and mindless fighting won't help anyone
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post #9450 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

This is gonna be it for my cpu. I might tweak the ram timings after a few days of use when I know that its stable beyound theses stress tests. it passed everything so hopefully no weird freezes or anything doing something simple.

I spent most of the day trying to get that uncore higher than this but at this point compared to my first chip i am very happy with it. I ran P95 this time around. temps were up to 86 on two cores but when I playing bf4 its never tops 60c


Username: Wirerat
CPU Model: 4670k
Core Multiplier: 47
CPU VID: 1.344
Vcore: 1.36
Uncore Multiplier: 40
Uncore Voltage:1.285
Cooling Solution: H110 push only stock fans
Stability Test: 30 mins XTU cpu stress. p95v2511 10 iterations. XTU benchmark. Cinebench.
Batch Number: [Malay L332B788
Ram Speed: 2400 mhz 11-13-13-34-1
Ram Voltage: 1.68v
Input Voltage: 2.1v
LLC Setting: [AUTO]
Motherboard: Asus Z87-Plus

 

You have already been charted, thanks. Glad you got x40 uncore.
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