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Will AMD 9000 beat GK110? - Page 20  

Poll Results: How well do you think HD9000 will perform?

 
  • 35% (55)
    Faster than GTX 780/Titan
  • 45% (70)
    About equal to GTX 780/Titan
  • 18% (29)
    Slower than GTX 780/Titan
154 Total Votes  
post #191 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Additional SPs very rarely scale in a linear fashion, especially at the higher end of chip designs. Just see what happens when moving from the 7870 to the 7970. I did not know we already knew the specs of the "9970". So we can't be sure about the number of ROPs for example.

AMD knows to address the bottlenecks facing its high end chip.
Quote:
There's very little financial incentive in having the perf crown. AMD realized this after the 2900XT and has been continuing their sweet spot strategy ever since. Completely changing their chip designing strategy and taking a big risk by making a huge leap in die size just to cater to their 10% marketshare in the GPGPU space?

not cater to but increase their marketshare in the professional market. you think AMD is not looking to improve marketshare. GCN is an architecture where AMD invested in GPGPU and compute performance . Fermi was vastly superior to VLIW5/ VLIW4 in those areas. GCN has bought AMD on par with Nvidia. OpenCL performance is extremely good on GCN.
Quote:
Keeping the voltage around the same ranges as the lower end designs isn't going to help keep the power consumption down.... quite the opposite actually... See GK110 vs. GK104.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/2

"Overvolting is instead a set of two additional turbo clock bins, above and beyond Titan’s default top bin. On our sample the top bin is 1.1625v, which corresponds to a 992MHz core clock. Overvolting Titan to 1.2 means unlocking two more bins: 1006MHz @ 1.175v, and 1019MHz @ 1.2v. Or put another way, overvolting on Titan involves unlocking only another 27MHz in performance "

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6994/nvidia-geforce-gtx-770-review/2

at 1.162v GTX 770 runs at 1110 mhz and at 1.212v at 1149 mhz. GTX Titan runs at 992 mhz max boost (118 mhz lower speed) compared to GTX 770 at same voltage of 1.162v. why is it impossible for a HD 9970 to run at 1 Ghz at 1.162v ?

you have still not answered the main question. if a GTX Titan with 7 billion transistors can run at 992 mhz boost and stay within 250W TDP why cannot a 5.5 billion transistor HD 9970 chip run at 1 Ghz at 1.162 - 1.175v and stay within 250W TDP.
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post #192 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by itzhoovEr View Post

Why can I not block you?

because he is supposed to be a moderator tongue.gif
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post #193 of 236
Yes!

No!

Maybe!

Wait, what was the question?
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post #194 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

AMD knows to address the bottlenecks facing its high end chip.

Except if they're actually looking to make a GPGPU chip. IN which case they would most likely just cram it with as much SPs as possible.
Quote:
not cater to but increase their marketshare in the professional market. you think AMD is not looking to improve marketshare. GCN is an architecture where AMD invested in GPGPU and compute performance . Fermi was vastly superior to VLIW5/ VLIW4 in those areas. GCN has bought AMD on par with Nvidia. OpenCL performance is extremely good on GCN.

On par with Nvidia? Since when? GK110 (the gpgpu chip of the kepler family) is superior in both performance and performance/watt compared to tahiti in both FP32 and FP64. To compete AMD needs two Tahiti cores.
Quote:
you have still not answered the main question. if a GTX Titan with 7 billion transistors can run at 992 mhz boost and stay within 250W TDP why cannot a 5.5 billion transistor HD 9970 chip run at 1 Ghz at 1.162 - 1.175v and stay within 250W TDP.

Maybe because Nvidia had a ton of extra power consumption headroom to play with? Maybe because the usual ~150MHz gap in operating frequencies between a Titan and a 770 is actually there and last I heard When you take 1050MHz of the 7970GE and substract 150MHZ you get 900MHz, not 1GHz. And that's all assuming that AMD would have as much power consumption and heat headroom to play with as Nvidia.

Also good to note that the GK110 based geforce cards hit their TDP limit much more often than GK104 based cards. Resulting in a bigger difference than the max boost clocks would have you assume.

Fact remains that a 1.05GHz Tahiti consumes as much as a Titan. You're saying that with a 25% increase in SPs, a 50% increase in ROPs, possibly a memory amount increase, doubling of the front end etc. AMD could do the same clocks as their previous card at the same power consumption level. That has literally never happened with big GPUs on the same process. Even with a matured process a 450mm^2 die is not going to clock as well as a 350mm^2 one at the same power consumption.

And to add to that, you brought up aggressive binning. Well there's a few problems with that.

1) If AMD were to make a big die it would target gpgpu ---> the low leakage dies would go to firepros

2) yields would be lower than with a smaller chips ---> aggressive binning much less likely.

3) because of low yields disabling some parts of the die would be likey, especially as it would be AMD's first try at such a chip.
 
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post #195 of 236
He's here to manipulate the poll results in favor of Nvidia.
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post #196 of 236
Oh wow. This is fun biggrin.gif

Funny how irrelevant all these discussions are, at the end of the day the only way to know how the 9970 will perform is when reviewers get their hands on them. For now i'm banking on it being faster then a 780 and maybe on par with Titan. 48 ROPS and 300 more SPs with an overclock of 1125Mhz should make that easily possible.
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post #197 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3illusiveman View Post

Oh wow. This is fun biggrin.gif

Funny how irrelevant all these discussions are, at the end of the day the only way to know how the 9970 will perform is when reviewers get their hands on them. For now i'm banking on it being faster then a 780 and maybe on par with Titan. 48 ROPS and 300 more SPs with an overclock of 1125Mhz should make that easily possible.

When users get them, reviewers can't overclock.

I'm hoping AMD can pull off a winner again, but have to wait & see...
    
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post #198 of 236
My AMD Radeon HD 9970/R9-xx70 prediction:

Architecture: 28nm Hawaii XT
Stream Processors: 2,880
Texture Mapping Units: 256
Raster Operation Pipelines:64
Core Clock:1050MHZ
Effective Memory Clock:7GHZ
Memory Bus:384 bit
Memory Bandwidth:336.5GB/s
Memory:4,096MB


Again, these are just my predictions. I don't fully understand why some people want to see a failure, when really, a better AMD response is better for the whole industry. If the Hawaii XT flagship cards don't perform better than the GTX 780, NVIDIA/retailers may as well keep the price tags the way they are now, and hold Maxwell back. If the Hawaii XT flagship cards do perform better, NVIDIA/retailers may lower prices, and may release Maxwell earlier as a response because that's how this competition is. The competition between AMD and NVIDIA for the "best GPU" title is actually tight. Team A releases the fastest card, then Team B releases a card 10% faster several months later. So, Team A releases another card priced 10% higher for 10% better performance than Team B's flagship. Then, the cycle continues.
Edited by target39 - 7/21/13 at 2:37pm
post #199 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by target39 View Post

My AMD Radeon HD 9970/R9-xx70 prediction:

Architecture: 28nm Hawaii XT
Stream Processors: 2,880
Texture Mapping Units: 256
Raster Operation Pipelines:64
Core Clock:1050MHZ
Effective Memory Clock:7GHZ
Memory Bus:384 bit
Memory Bandwidth:336.5GB/s
Memory:4,096MB


Again, these are just my predictions. I don't fully understand why some people want to see a failure, when really, a better AMD response is better for the whole industry. If the Hawaii XT flagship cards don't perform better than the GTX 780, NVIDIA/retailers may as well keep the price tags the way they are now, and hold Maxwell back. If the Hawaii XT flagship cards do perform better, NVIDIA/retailers may lower prices, and may release Maxwell earlier as a response because that's how this competition is. The competition between AMD and NVIDIA for the "best GPU" title is actually tight. Team A releases the fastest card, then Team B releases a card 10% faster several months later. So, Team A releases another card priced 10% higher for 10% better performance than Team B's flagship. Then, the cycle continues.
drool.gif please be true
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post #200 of 236
In reality inst it better for AMD to destroy Titan for everyone ?
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