Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › Let's be honest Haswell is pants for overclocking
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Let's be honest Haswell is pants for overclocking

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
We all like a challenge and I have been desperate to find a compelling reason to upgrade from my ageing but 100% stable X58 v.quiet system. The CPU may be modestly over-clocked by 37.5% but at a nice low voltage and temps at ambient 25C are 44-57C (typical gaming) & 64C (max stress testing).

I am gutted with how things are going with Haswell. The truth is Haswell is a great chip for mobile users and normal users not interested in over clocking but pants for overclockers. The hardware review sites and the overclocking community showcase and build the publicity all over the web for the new CPU's and Intel needed that publicity for Haswell. So what do Intel do? They treat the hardware review sites with disdain by providing hand-picked pre-retail Haswell CPUs for review which run cooler and overclock higher than retail.

I'm helping someone build a MSI G45 mobo gaming system. During this build I have realised how poor the 4770K Haswell is for overclocking. 4.2GHz tops with insane temps, it's just not worth it, I've advised him not to bother overclocking. He should have saved some money and got the non K version. His brand new Coolermaster PSU appears not be compatible with the new Haswell sleep state. The USB3 problem which Intel advised would be fixed by C2 well we have seen it with a Corsair stick.

As usual a wealth of info in various Haswell threads on this site. It seems a sad state of affairs that overclockers are attacking their new CPU's with a vice and hammer! Anybody killing their CPU has got to feel like a mug. Intel should stop marketing the K series chips as for overclocking until they go back to soldering the heatspreader to the CPU for at least that variation, that is the answer. Treat us with a bit of respect withdraw the K version or make it fit for purpose.




http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/382267/intel-haswell-hotter-and-slower-than-expected
http://modcrash.com/intel-haswell-cpu-retail-version-worse/
http://techreport.com/review/24897/the-big-haswell-psu-compatibility-list
Edited by EasterEEL - 7/27/13 at 6:11am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 930 @ 3.85GHz Gigabyte G1.Sniper X58 BiosF4e CPU1.2v/QPI1.225v MSIGTX680 Core1120/1185MHz Mem6000MHz G.Skill 3x4GB Ripjaws RLF3 1600MHz @ CAS8 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x Samsung 256GB SSD 830 Samsung 1TB F3 LG Blu-ray RW BH10LS30 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit Hazro HZ27WA LED S-IPS TFT 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Keysonic KSK-8020HM Aluminium Seasonic X-Series 760W 80+ Gold Cooler Master 690 II Advanced Logitech RX1000 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 930 @ 3.85GHz Gigabyte G1.Sniper X58 BiosF4e CPU1.2v/QPI1.225v MSIGTX680 Core1120/1185MHz Mem6000MHz G.Skill 3x4GB Ripjaws RLF3 1600MHz @ CAS8 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x Samsung 256GB SSD 830 Samsung 1TB F3 LG Blu-ray RW BH10LS30 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit Hazro HZ27WA LED S-IPS TFT 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Keysonic KSK-8020HM Aluminium Seasonic X-Series 760W 80+ Gold Cooler Master 690 II Advanced Logitech RX1000 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 40
As usual a wealth of info in various Haswell threads on this site. It seems a sad state of affairs that overclockers are attacking their new CPU's with a vice and hammer! Anybody killing their CPU has got to feel like a mug. Intel should stop marketing the K series chips as for overclocking until they go back to soldering the heatspreader to the CPU for at least that variation, that is the answer. Treat us with a bit of respect withdraw the K version or make it fit for purpose.

You gotta laugh lachen.gif


Come on - before it came out it was expected biggrin.gif

Still a good chip for those that don't play with them thumb.gif
Edited by ladcrooks - 7/21/13 at 3:46am
post #3 of 40
I think most people can do 4.2 - 4.5, maybe some less maybe some more, but what is advisable is a better cpu cooler.. for example my h80i is worthless to keep haswell cool,
so now have bought a swiftech h220 hopefully that should get it done, also I agree platform is x58 is still good but its very old now and if you was to try the new tech its much faster
ReD MiSt
(14 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 6700K 4.9  Asus Impact VIII / Swiftech Apogee XL Palit Gamerock Prem GTX 1080 EK G Skill Trident Z 4133mhz 16GB EK Monarch 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
INTEL 750 400GB U.2 SanDisk Extreme Pro 960GB EK D5 PWM ROG SWIFT PG279Q IPS 165hz / Acer X34A 
KeyboardPowerCaseAudio
Cyborg S.T.R.I.K.E 7 EVGA 750 G2 In-Win D-Frame Mini Meridian Explorer 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k 4.6ghz ASUS Z170-E MSI GTX 1070 TwinFrozr G SKILL RIPJAWZ 3200mhz 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
240gb OCZ SSD Swiftech H220 Asus VG278HV 144hz 1080p RM850 
Case
Fractal Design R4 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k @ 4.6Ghz 1.23v L419B655 HERO 7 GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveMonitor
16GB XTREEM LV 2600Mhz C10 4 x 4GB 840 PRO 256GB Samsung 1TB F3 Asus ROG swift PG278Q 27'' 144Hz 
PowerCaseAudio
CORSAIR AX1200i Corsair 760T BLACK Meridian Explorer 
  hide details  
Reply
ReD MiSt
(14 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 6700K 4.9  Asus Impact VIII / Swiftech Apogee XL Palit Gamerock Prem GTX 1080 EK G Skill Trident Z 4133mhz 16GB EK Monarch 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
INTEL 750 400GB U.2 SanDisk Extreme Pro 960GB EK D5 PWM ROG SWIFT PG279Q IPS 165hz / Acer X34A 
KeyboardPowerCaseAudio
Cyborg S.T.R.I.K.E 7 EVGA 750 G2 In-Win D-Frame Mini Meridian Explorer 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k 4.6ghz ASUS Z170-E MSI GTX 1070 TwinFrozr G SKILL RIPJAWZ 3200mhz 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
240gb OCZ SSD Swiftech H220 Asus VG278HV 144hz 1080p RM850 
Case
Fractal Design R4 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k @ 4.6Ghz 1.23v L419B655 HERO 7 GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveMonitor
16GB XTREEM LV 2600Mhz C10 4 x 4GB 840 PRO 256GB Samsung 1TB F3 Asus ROG swift PG278Q 27'' 144Hz 
PowerCaseAudio
CORSAIR AX1200i Corsair 760T BLACK Meridian Explorer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 40
I agree with the OP.

Asus11, WC didn't keep my CPU from high temps, and after a year, my original overclocked voltage setting was not enough...
Old rig
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Maximus V Gene MSI Radeon R9 280X Gaming G.Skill Trident 2400 C10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Crucial M500 240 Hitach HDT721010 EK Supremacy Clear CSQ Alphacool XT45 360+240 
CoolingCoolingMonitorPower
EK-VGA Supreme HF Swiftech MCP655 Asus MX239H Antec TP 550 New 
CaseAudio
NZXT Switch 810 Black M Creative X-Fi Extreme 
  hide details  
Reply
Old rig
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Maximus V Gene MSI Radeon R9 280X Gaming G.Skill Trident 2400 C10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Crucial M500 240 Hitach HDT721010 EK Supremacy Clear CSQ Alphacool XT45 360+240 
CoolingCoolingMonitorPower
EK-VGA Supreme HF Swiftech MCP655 Asus MX239H Antec TP 550 New 
CaseAudio
NZXT Switch 810 Black M Creative X-Fi Extreme 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 40
im still torn apart 3570k and 4670k for my friends build that will feature custom watercooling, i know the custom loop should be enough to cool down haswell at 4.5ghz but should every average chip reach that kind of clock speeds? I've heard of many people saying their chips cant do more than 4.2 and so on... headscratch.gif
post #6 of 40
Folks with Haswell....DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED! Most are stuck at 4.2-4.3ghz because they never touched their UNCORE. Once you lower your uncore down to 34x or 35x, you can easily increase your multiplier headroom. Sometimes by even 4.6ghz....thats an increase of 400mhz over an initial 4.2ghz....which is a HUGE bump in performance..... compared to the 1% loss in performance by lowering uncore down to 34x or 35x. CORE IS STILL KING. Oh yeah and please....if you have a 2400mhz memory kit...DO NOT run 2400mhz initially. Lower it to 1600mhz and try to see the max potential of the CPU, before raising the memory back to 2400mhz. Most CPUs cannot hold a high overclock (4.7ghz) with a high memory speed (2400mhz)

Nearly the whole community were scratching their heads at why Haswell was such a poor OCer. Launch week was such a mess, with many folks claiming 4.2-4.4ghz. And they were all wondering how Linus and JJ got theirs to 4.8ghz with ease....it's because they had an extremely cherry picked unit, that could do 4.8ghz with 2400mhz RAM and full native uncore (or at least close to native 1:1)

Once a few weeks passed, people were finding out lowering the uncore opened up the headroom....and now here we are today. So hopefully more people can get their 4.5-4.6ghz by lowering the uncore. Thermals will be even more of a challenge than Ivy though....due to the FIVR under the IHS. I'm gonna say once thermals and uncore is taken care of, I'm willing to bet Haswell can OC just as well as Ivy....with maybe a slight lead to Ivy in terms of clock speed. But Haswell has the upper hand in improved IPCs at the same clock. thumb.gif
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 4670k 4.6GHz 1.24v Asus Maximus VI Hero EVGA GTX 780 ACX x2 SLI 16gb G.Skill Trident X 2400mhz CL10 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 PRO 256gb Noctua NH-D15 Windows 8.1 PRO 64 Bit Dell UltraSharp U3011 30inch 2560x1600 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-850 80+ Gold Cooler Master HAF X Logitech G602 Corsair Vengeance MM200 
AudioAudio
Schiit Modi USB DAC External Sound Card Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 4670k 4.6GHz 1.24v Asus Maximus VI Hero EVGA GTX 780 ACX x2 SLI 16gb G.Skill Trident X 2400mhz CL10 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 PRO 256gb Noctua NH-D15 Windows 8.1 PRO 64 Bit Dell UltraSharp U3011 30inch 2560x1600 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-850 80+ Gold Cooler Master HAF X Logitech G602 Corsair Vengeance MM200 
AudioAudio
Schiit Modi USB DAC External Sound Card Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 40
Thread Starter 
The cooler is a Cooler Master Seidon 120M and if the Corsair H80i is not up to the job....

I will have a play with the UNICORE as I remember lowering that helped with the X58 max voltage oc. If overclocking makes sense heat wise my aim is to get him to at least 4.2GHz with max temp at 80C under load which can only be achieved by lowering the voltage or getting a better cooler. The MSI G45 motherboard is rather nice for the money (except for the crappy NIC Killer software which is all disabled), first MSI board I have worked on for years.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 930 @ 3.85GHz Gigabyte G1.Sniper X58 BiosF4e CPU1.2v/QPI1.225v MSIGTX680 Core1120/1185MHz Mem6000MHz G.Skill 3x4GB Ripjaws RLF3 1600MHz @ CAS8 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x Samsung 256GB SSD 830 Samsung 1TB F3 LG Blu-ray RW BH10LS30 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit Hazro HZ27WA LED S-IPS TFT 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Keysonic KSK-8020HM Aluminium Seasonic X-Series 760W 80+ Gold Cooler Master 690 II Advanced Logitech RX1000 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 930 @ 3.85GHz Gigabyte G1.Sniper X58 BiosF4e CPU1.2v/QPI1.225v MSIGTX680 Core1120/1185MHz Mem6000MHz G.Skill 3x4GB Ripjaws RLF3 1600MHz @ CAS8 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x Samsung 256GB SSD 830 Samsung 1TB F3 LG Blu-ray RW BH10LS30 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit Hazro HZ27WA LED S-IPS TFT 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Keysonic KSK-8020HM Aluminium Seasonic X-Series 760W 80+ Gold Cooler Master 690 II Advanced Logitech RX1000 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasterEEL View Post

The cooler is a Cooler Master Seidon 120M and if the Corsair H80i is not up to the job....

I will have a play with the UNICORE as I remember lowering that helped with the X58 max voltage oc. If overclocking makes sense heat wise my aim is to get him to at least 4.2GHz with max temp at 80C under load which can only be achieved by lowering the voltage or getting a better cooler. The MSI G45 motherboard is rather nice for the money (except for the crappy NIC Killer software which is all disabled), first MSI board I have worked on for years.

I have no doubt you can hit 4.2ghz core....even the crappiest of CPU samples can hit 4.2ghz. The real question is, can you hit 4.5-4.6ghz with low vcore, and 35x uncore? If you can achieve that, then you've got yourself a nice CPU sample....heck, I know most folks can hit at least 4.5ghz, once they found out about the uncore....and they have a decent AIR/AIO cooler such as Noctua D14 or Corsair H100i....this is folks with mediocre to decent CPU samples, nothing golden.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 4670k 4.6GHz 1.24v Asus Maximus VI Hero EVGA GTX 780 ACX x2 SLI 16gb G.Skill Trident X 2400mhz CL10 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 PRO 256gb Noctua NH-D15 Windows 8.1 PRO 64 Bit Dell UltraSharp U3011 30inch 2560x1600 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-850 80+ Gold Cooler Master HAF X Logitech G602 Corsair Vengeance MM200 
AudioAudio
Schiit Modi USB DAC External Sound Card Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 4670k 4.6GHz 1.24v Asus Maximus VI Hero EVGA GTX 780 ACX x2 SLI 16gb G.Skill Trident X 2400mhz CL10 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 PRO 256gb Noctua NH-D15 Windows 8.1 PRO 64 Bit Dell UltraSharp U3011 30inch 2560x1600 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-850 80+ Gold Cooler Master HAF X Logitech G602 Corsair Vengeance MM200 
AudioAudio
Schiit Modi USB DAC External Sound Card Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 40
no all im saying is if you want 4.4 + from haswell you will need a h100 or better otherwise it will just clockback

I wish I could delid my cpu but thats £270 worth of processing im messing with if anything goes wrong!, plus im guessing it would be harder to sell
ReD MiSt
(14 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 6700K 4.9  Asus Impact VIII / Swiftech Apogee XL Palit Gamerock Prem GTX 1080 EK G Skill Trident Z 4133mhz 16GB EK Monarch 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
INTEL 750 400GB U.2 SanDisk Extreme Pro 960GB EK D5 PWM ROG SWIFT PG279Q IPS 165hz / Acer X34A 
KeyboardPowerCaseAudio
Cyborg S.T.R.I.K.E 7 EVGA 750 G2 In-Win D-Frame Mini Meridian Explorer 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k 4.6ghz ASUS Z170-E MSI GTX 1070 TwinFrozr G SKILL RIPJAWZ 3200mhz 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
240gb OCZ SSD Swiftech H220 Asus VG278HV 144hz 1080p RM850 
Case
Fractal Design R4 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k @ 4.6Ghz 1.23v L419B655 HERO 7 GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveMonitor
16GB XTREEM LV 2600Mhz C10 4 x 4GB 840 PRO 256GB Samsung 1TB F3 Asus ROG swift PG278Q 27'' 144Hz 
PowerCaseAudio
CORSAIR AX1200i Corsair 760T BLACK Meridian Explorer 
  hide details  
Reply
ReD MiSt
(14 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 6700K 4.9  Asus Impact VIII / Swiftech Apogee XL Palit Gamerock Prem GTX 1080 EK G Skill Trident Z 4133mhz 16GB EK Monarch 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
INTEL 750 400GB U.2 SanDisk Extreme Pro 960GB EK D5 PWM ROG SWIFT PG279Q IPS 165hz / Acer X34A 
KeyboardPowerCaseAudio
Cyborg S.T.R.I.K.E 7 EVGA 750 G2 In-Win D-Frame Mini Meridian Explorer 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k 4.6ghz ASUS Z170-E MSI GTX 1070 TwinFrozr G SKILL RIPJAWZ 3200mhz 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
240gb OCZ SSD Swiftech H220 Asus VG278HV 144hz 1080p RM850 
Case
Fractal Design R4 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4790k @ 4.6Ghz 1.23v L419B655 HERO 7 GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel GTX 780 Ti Matrix / Acetal Nickel 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveMonitor
16GB XTREEM LV 2600Mhz C10 4 x 4GB 840 PRO 256GB Samsung 1TB F3 Asus ROG swift PG278Q 27'' 144Hz 
PowerCaseAudio
CORSAIR AX1200i Corsair 760T BLACK Meridian Explorer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asus11 View Post

I wish I could delid my cpu but thats £270 worth of processing im messing with if anything goes wrong!, plus im guessing it would be harder to sell

I've heard the new way of doing it (it had a name, cant remember) is fool proof as long as you dont do anything stupid rolleyes.gif
I'd say it might be easier to sell esp if you sell to someone that know about this stuff. They'll know th chip will OC better than something with the lid not capped biggrin.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › Let's be honest Haswell is pants for overclocking