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[Kitguru] - Valve due in court over refusal to allow resale of digital games - Page 29

post #281 of 734
Personally, I love Steam, it's damned convenient to not have to find the DVD each time I wanna game, and handy for jumping into multiplayer with friends, and keeping games up-to-date without having to use in-game updaters or keeping an eye on the developer website. Plus their sales are awesome, not just the massive reductions but the way they are organised.

Putting the "fanboy" nature aside, I guess as long as they are treated the same as all online, digital retailers (gaming or otherwise), I can't really complain. But I wouldn't be happy if at the end of it all, I end up losing out, either by way of the games going up in price, or the smaller developers (who make some cracking games) choosing not to bother supporting Steam, so the number of new games available goes down.
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post #282 of 734
Well I kinda like Steam as well, but I don't see it as shining beacon of light in PC gaming. They have earned my trust to not screw me over the second I look the other way but I'm keeping one eye on them nevertheless - my relationship with Steam is more of pragmatic and mutually beneficial in nature. They provide me with some convenience and I buy stuff through them. Some which I Only buy bcos hey its -75% off and perhaps I would have time / would like to play it sometime in the future. I have atm 225 games on Steam - majority of which I have never launched (no time for gaming as much as I would like). They do things also which I don't like - like their recent TOS change about class action suits and "my way or ur screwed" attitude in this regard.

I'm in favor of used game sales on Steam. Being able to sell used games on Steam would not mean that I would consider selling any of mine unless I'm facing some kind of serious financial stress and need the extra liquidity right now. I don't sell my used hardware either - its mine and I hoard it, put it somewhere in the dark closet for the rainy days - should I need a replacement GFX card or a spare still mostly functional PSU to last through a RMA or such. And occasionally throw together something for a friend or family member in where some of the spare parts can find new life.

Matter of life is also blatantly simple as far as Steam sales go - I only buy the game when its at acceptable price for me. No sale no game, most of the time. Without steam sales I would have uhh ... perhaps 15? games on Steam altogether. Steam is not the only platform out there and you can find good deals elsewhere as well - for the time being - its just the most convinient one and usually, during the sale, one of the cheapest options for some particular game. Remove that financial inclination it's a lot less attractive platform all the sudden.

Based on my own mindset (although all people are not like me ofc) I do not expect Steam sales to go away even if used games sales will be allowed. What might happen, ofc, is some limitations during the sales - say, for example limiting games to one game per account or even going a step further and one game per real life person (say, for example, in a simplified version limiting sales to a one per a credit card or such). Without the sales a lot of the games people buy would not be bought at all.
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post #283 of 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc View Post

ITT: people willing to give away their rights for (alleged) cheaper prices.


Nice job guys. It's always good to see the Valve Defence Force in full force.

Ikr. They defend valve like its the god of games, just because of half life. Every valve game is just a recycle of every other game they own. Yet any other game dev does this and they flame.rolleyes.gif

So I fully expected them to defend this point as well. Astonishing people are against user rights, simply because its valve. So sad.
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post #284 of 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

Ikr. They defend valve like its the god of games, just because of half life. Every valve game is just a recycle of every other game they own. Yet any other game dev does this and they flame.rolleyes.gif

So I fully expected them to defend this point as well. Astonishing people are against user rights, simply because its valve. So sad.

I bet if it were Ubisoft or EA in place of Valve, you would see a whole lot more negativity, and a whole lot less "but, what about the developers!"

All the EU law is saying is that there has to be a way to transfer a digital license from one person to another. They are not saying Valve has to have a "used game section" right next to their "new game section" on Steam. Or, undercut their own prices: NEW: 39.99 "USED:" 38.99

Everything can be done privately.

But oh no Steam sales.
Edited by Cheezman - 7/24/13 at 7:32am
 
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post #285 of 734
At the end of the day, I can pretty much predict what Steam will do if this turns against them.

Europe can kiss offline mode goodbye. All games will require online connection to function. They'll label themselves a "Gaming Service", rather than a sales site. How is this good for the consumer? Some laws need to be put in place to realize that digital content is far different from hard products.
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post #286 of 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

I bet if it were Ubisoft or EA in place of Valve, you would see a whole lot more negativity, and a whole lot less "but, what about the developers!"

All the EU law is saying is that there has to be a way to transfer a digital license from one person to another. They are not saying Valve has to have a "used game section" right next to their "new game section" on Steam. Or, undercut their own prices: NEW: 39.99 "USED:" 38.99

Everything can be done privately.

But oh no Steam sales.

That's the thing, Valve ISN'T EA. EA already cuts all the corners it can to grab money, not worrying about how it affects the customer. Make no mistake, I know Valve want's money, but they make money with player experience, rather than using old franchises fitted with money grabbing schemes. Do you think an EA ran steam would be pumping out Steam Sales?

Your analogy is pretty irrelivent.
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post #287 of 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

No. That's fine if they want to be compensated for their work. And they are, the first time each game is sold. Again, all used copies had to be bought new.

But also, most people spend thousands upon thousands of hours doing their jobs. You think Bob over at the GM plant assembling cars isn't spending thousands of his hours assembling cars? Which can later be sold second hand, of which he sees $0 from. Or Sally who builds televisions for Samsung, of which she sees $0 from in a second hand sale.

They really don't have any right to claim any ownership after someone has already purchased the product. Just like, you know, every other product in existence.

But more importantly, what gives a game developer the right to pick and choose which laws they want to abide by? EU says they need to provide for second hand sales. They don't, they are welcome to not offer products and services in EU nations.

Greed is wanting more than you deserve. Who's being greedy? The people who previously had rights to resell, or the people taking those rights away just because they can? Better yet, what about the people telling other people they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their right to resell their products, just because they want to spend slightly less for a product in a random sale? Who is greedy then?

Now I know you haven't put any thought into it. You also completely ignored what I said regarding the number of people using your service. Once again, if a developer provides a service that 10 people use, should they only be paid by 1 of those 10?

The answer is no, yet you somehow can't see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

A car automatically loses 20% of its value (or something to that degree) simply by leaving the dealer's lot. Why can't the same logic apply then?

Because the physical condition of the car is worse. The physical condition of the game is NOT worse, it's identical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

He was talking about the hours put in to the development of those products.

Also, games values do degrade with time. Otherwise, that copy of Rainbow Six from 1998 would still be worth it's retail price today that it sold for in 1998.

The physical condition does not degrade. A game loses value because technology gets better and better games get released, not because the original game has changed in any way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

I buy a brand new car, put it on sale 5 minutes later, it's already lost 20% value simply by having been bought, because it's not "new" anymore even though it's still in the same condition. doh.gif

That's simply not true. Maybe if you tried to trade it back in, but trade in value is not even close to what you'd get selling it yourself.
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post #288 of 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post


2) Games will drop in price over time because they've had time to turn a profit. People never consider development expenses have to be paid for plus company overhead PLUS starting a fund for potential future projects. The sooner a company gets down their financial roadmap the sooner prices will fall.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with this point.

By your reasoning the quicker a company makes a profit on a game the quicker the price will fall. When is the last time you saw a highly profitable title drop in price quickly? A company won't drop the price of a game unless they have to to bring demand for that game back up. That's the only way that makes sense from an entrepreneurial standpoint. It's not like they say "Ok guys, we made enough to cover our overhead, development costs and enough to do another project, let's cut the price of this game in half."
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post #289 of 734
This is bad. TotalBiscuit has gone over this in a video "Content Patch Ep. 118 on July 23rd". (I'm at work or I'd link it)

Simply put, if we are allowed to resell our steam games then those amazing sale prices that we get all the time will go right back up to console level prices.

Why?

The whole reason why we can get Dishonored for $12 and BioShock Infinity for 50% off and all these great fairly new titles for super cheap is because the developers and corporations know that they aren't losing more money to the next person that can just buy a used game. Developers make $0 from a resell of a game so to make up for that in console games where you get hard copies they set the price higher to compensate for that loss in revenue.

This is bad for the consumer and bad for the developers.
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post #290 of 734
Reading this thread really makes me appreciate how utterly stupid consumers are. Thanks everyone!
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