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What Core 2 Duo motherboard is right for me? - Page 8

post #71 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burn View Post
Okay, I surrender

If I wanted to install, say, a SATA DVD burner though, I'd run out of SATA ports, right? Really don't want to spend the cash on a SATA card if I don't have to. Ineed, I am considering buying a SATA burner, and selling this HP one

Do you still think going with the BadAxe 2 is a good choice?

Thanks for all the help
I will tell you this:

I regret getting the P5B over the Bad Axe 2. I was unaware of the XBX2 when I bought the P5B. The P5B is great, XBX2 is better.

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post #72 of 141
Was conversing with The Manual for 5 seconds, and he reccomended the P5B in this case, because of the hard drive circumstance and various limitations with the 975x chipset, outlined below.

I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual
The fact that you wish to use a RAID configuration which recommends the ICH8R limits the choice of boards on the i975X chipset. The best i975X chipset in my opinion is the P5WDH Deluxe, however it is limited to ICH7R, thus limitation of RAID drives. Also the RAID system on the P5WDH is not extremely impressive, regardless of drive configuration.

The i975X does offer better overclocking options, however, it's ability to overclock chips past 400FSB is slightly impaired. The main occurrence is due to the effect of the Resistance on the Northbridge of these boards, and thus can not be easily corrected.

For the moment I would say you're choice of the P5B Deluxe is perfect. However I do not have enough time to discuss the factors behind the decision, or your full needs. We can do that tomorrow if that is appropriate.
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post #73 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burn View Post
Was conversing with The Manual for 5 seconds, and he reccomended the P5B in this case, because of the hard drive circumstance and various limitations with the 975x chipset, outlined below.

I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him
Manual never references his sources. He comes across very intelligent, and I like him. However, he is given far to much credit and unwaivering trust.

The D975XBX can overclock to the mid to high 400's with NB strap control. I don't think you release how much of an advantage to have NB strap control.

In a PB5 dlx, 425Mhz FSB is slower than 400Mhz FSB because the P5B automatically sets in a higher latency.

In the XBX2, you can run a 425Mhz FSB on the same latencies that you would run at 400Mhz FSB. This allows you to overclock to higher FSB while maintaining lower latencies.
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post #74 of 141
Sources always back one's arguments up, but I think I can place at least some trust in The_Manual's arguments.

I do understand the importance you place on NB straps. If the 400mhz strap on the P5B wasn't designed to run at 425, why is one able to do that on the BadAxe? I also don't think I am going to play around at 425 FSB much, I am hoping at least 4 Ghz, if not more. So around the 450-500 FSB range hopefully.

The E6600 has a 9x multiplier locked both ways, correct?
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post #75 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burn View Post
Sources always back one's arguments up, but I think I can place at least some trust in The_Manual's arguments.

I do understand the importance you place on NB straps. If the 400mhz strap on the P5B wasn't designed to run at 425, why is one able to do that on the BadAxe? I also don't think I am going to play around at 425 FSB much, I am hoping at least 4 Ghz, if not more. So around the 450-500 FSB range hopefully.

The E6600 has a 9x multiplier locked both ways, correct?
On the P5B imagine a chart. The chart has a a series of FSB and latencies associated with it. When you hit 400Mhz FSB, the NB initiates the latencies under 400Mhz on that chart.

This chart would be just like the timing table on CPUz.



So for the P5B, if you step over 400Mhz FSB, you are now in a new range of latencies. You have no control over this.

However, on the XBX2, you DO have control over it. You can change when the latencies change. Which allows you to overclock to 400Mhz + FSB and have a huge advantage in performance over the P5B.

If that isn't enough to explain it to you, take a look at this:

Here is a 1M run comparing a

XBX2 @ 450Mhz x 9 = 4050Mhz 1800Mhz FSB
P5B Dlx @ 503Mhz x 8 = 4025Mhz 2012Mhz FSB




Even with the FSB and memory advantage, the XBX2 is faster!

Again, same setup, look at the Aquamark03 score.

Here, the XBX2 is also faster than the P5B Dlx:




So as you can see, the ability to manually control the reference frequency (NB strap) allows for more performance!

Also, the board has better power regulation.

Owners of the board swear it is more stable and overall better than any ASUS board.

I may get one (going to be hard justifying 3 boards in as many months, but this is just an amazing board!)
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post #76 of 141
Paul, you make this so darn difficult!

So basically if I go with the BadAxe 2, I'll see a small performance drop in RAID, but overall overclocking is better due to better voltage regulation? What about vdroop? I'm sorry if we already went over this, but what about FSB limitations?

Thanks for all the info
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post #77 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burn View Post
Paul, you make this so darn difficult!

So basically if I go with the BadAxe 2, I'll see a small performance drop in RAID, but overall overclocking is better due to better voltage regulation? What about vdroop? I'm sorry if we already went over this, but what about FSB limitations?

Thanks for all the info
The bottom line is, the XBX2 does not offer a lot of the eye-candy features that are common with ASUS motherboards. You aren't going to get some silly "AI-NOS" or "Stack-Cool" fake technology. You aren't going to get a remote control or build in WIFI. You also aren't going to get a roller coaster ride worth of heatpipes.

You are going to get a high quality motherboard will a Vdroop that is VERY small (.005V if I remember)

Given that, Intel is new to the Enthusiast market and overclocking motherboards. The XBX2 requires a battery style CMOS clear to reset the motherboard after a failed overclock (BIOS is suppose to fix that soon). I am also not certain about how the memory works on the XBX2. I am trying to read up on it. I believe it works in ratios. There is also a 1.60V limit for CPU. 2.8V in .04V increments for memory (very nice!). Also, you cannot unlock down with retail processors. (However, unlocking down is undesirable because of increased NBCC)

Even though there are some short coming to the XBX2 BIOS it is the only current board to offer manual strap control. You can set the 1066Mhz (stock) or go up to the 1333Mhz strap. Future BIOS may allow for the 1600Mhz strap.

The XBX2 (or any 975X board) will not hit as high of a FSB as the P5B Deluxe (or any high end P965). However, as the above tests show, the XBX2 at a lower FSB and memory speed is faster than the P5B Dlx at higher FSB and memory speed.

The average E6600 is only capable of about 425Mhz FSB +/- 25Mhz FSB. If you want to do more than that, you are going to need voltages and mods that make me cringe.

I suggest that before you make a final decision look around. I have personally been unpleased with my P5B. If you decide the P5B is for you, let me know. I probably will be willing to sell it to your for a good price (I just bought it too! ) However, I personally highly recommend the XBX2.
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post #78 of 141
I didn't see a overview of the MSI 945P Neo-3.

I am looking for a Non-SLI/Crossfire Motherboard for my E6300 Rig, I want to overclock and keep it at 3.0 GHz 24/7, so I need a FSB of 429 constant. I might think about going higher but I'll be completely happy with 3.0GHz.

Any thoughts? I was looking at:

GIGABYTE 945PL-S3
MSI 945P Neo3
BIOSTAR TForce 965PT

Any suggesions besides those? I really don't wanna spend too much on it.
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post #79 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Criswell View Post
I didn't see a overview of the MSI 945P Neo-3.

I am looking for a Non-SLI/Crossfire Motherboard for my E6300 Rig, I want to overclock and keep it at 3.0 GHz 24/7, so I need a FSB of 429 constant. I might think about going higher but I'll be completely happy with 3.0GHz.

Any thoughts? I was looking at:

GIGABYTE 945PL-S3
MSI 945P Neo3
BIOSTAR TForce 965PT

Any suggesions besides those? I really don't wanna spend too much on it.
BioStar sounds like a winner for you.
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post #80 of 141
Great review of boards!!! May I add the suggestion to include information on whether the board has Quad-Core support?? My $0.02.

Francis
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