Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Coding and Programming › Web Coding › How would I start and what would I need to create a professional website?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How would I start and what would I need to create a professional website? - Page 2

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I know you wouldn't have got much say in the design, but I'm really not keen on the 1st site. all those swirly lines moving at different speeds when scrolling is making me go cross-eyed laugher.gif.

But jokes aside, I do 100% agree with you. In fact I'd go further and say that learning a CMS before learning core skills will hold you back. I mean, there's nothing wrong with using a CMS if the occasion calls for it, but it really pays to understand the whole software stack that you're working with (which is why I think professional web developers also need a firm understanding of how the HTTP protocol works - as there's a lot of quirks in the specification that dictate how to secure a web portal)

Think about how far you can get with a CMS alone. Whats nice about the CMS is that it's your entire website foundation. I personally do not feel that i could code a legit shopping cart system that would be easy for the client to maintain. Hell, it takes a lot of work to make a website nice without using any themes or frameworks.

With CMS you normally don't need to touch the PHP files, the modules cover the majority of the work, and if they dont, it tends to cause a bit of a mess when making those changes. (Serious Upgrade Issues comes to mind). Once you have the structure, thats when you start twieking things to make those final touches. I dont know anyone that would pull out a book on CSS and read and read to learn how to do it. I would run into a problem, like I want this text to always stay on one line. I then google, how to do it. I see examples, and then I try it out.

In short... i think its better to learn on the fly, a psudo agile approach. You will need to read up on the basics of stuff like what is CSS and the syntax, but after that just run with it.

I think it's a lot easier psychologically to pick up and learn using CMS from the start, because you start off with something that already looks nice as is. You are only trying to make something nice, even better. Starting from scratch makes your goal look sooo far away; It's discouraging.
Zev's Comp
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDM... GeForce GTX 750 Ti G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DrivePower
1TB HDD 64GB SSD (Used for SRT) 500 GB. Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V... 
Case
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black S... 
  hide details  
Reply
Zev's Comp
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDM... GeForce GTX 750 Ti G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DrivePower
1TB HDD 64GB SSD (Used for SRT) 500 GB. Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V... 
Case
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black S... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

Think about how far you can get with a CMS alone. Whats nice about the CMS is that it's your entire website foundation. I personally do not feel that i could code a legit shopping cart system that would be easy for the client to maintain. Hell, it takes a lot of work to make a website nice without using any themes or frameworks.
Yeah, I accept that. But it seems a little disingenuous to be basing your site on code you couldn't write yourself while still calling yourself a professional. However this might just be because of my background. I grew up in an era when computers would boot up to a BASIC interpreter, and very few resources were handed to you. These days it's so easy to be a "programmer" because there's so many excellent frameworks in place that you can build fairly substantial projects with the minimum of effort. But to not learn the underlying technologies -nor even the language- feels somewhat lazy to me. I'm sorry, for saying so as you do sound like a nice guy, but that's just my view. Others may disagree and their -as well as your own- opinions are equally valid.

That all said, I do completely agree with you that CMSs are a great tool and that developers should never be afraid to use them. Sometimes there's too much "reinventing of the wheel" going on just because it's often fun to do so.

Anyway, personal opinions aside, I still think it's good to see more people taking up programming - regardless of the way in which you choose to learn it smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

With CMS you normally don't need to touch the PHP files, the modules cover the majority of the work, and if they dont, it tends to cause a bit of a mess when making those changes. (Serious Upgrade Issues comes to mind). Once you have the structure, thats when you start twieking things to make those final touches. I dont know anyone that would pull out a book on CSS and read and read to learn how to do it. I would run into a problem, like I want this text to always stay on one line. I then google, how to do it. I see examples, and then I try it out.

In short... i think its better to learn on the fly, a psudo agile approach. You will need to read up on the basics of stuff like what is CSS and the syntax, but after that just run with it.

I think it's a lot easier psychologically to pick up and learn using CMS from the start, because you start off with something that already looks nice as is. You are only trying to make something nice, even better. Starting from scratch makes your goal look sooo far away; It's discouraging.
You'd be amazed at just how quick you can pick stuff up when thrown in the deep end. And never be afraid to make mistakes - mistakes are sometimes more educational than getting things right smile.gif
Edited by Plan9 - 9/5/13 at 1:04am
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenscobie86 View Post

HOLY CRAP! AWESOME constructive criticism! Thanks very much. I'll definitely play around with the ideas mentioned. Hopefully my crappy little site and everyones responses will serve as some more info for the OP.

Kudos guys/gals!

Not a problem mate. I look forward to seeing later versions of the site (and your wife/girlfriend's food looks lush. I'm slightly jealous there became my wife basically just opens jars)
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenscobie86 View Post

EDIT: Forgot to add that I am actually a sysadmin by trade and never do web design/dev work at all, but still nice to be able to jump in here and get engaged in a fun and educational convo with people in the know.
Likewise. smile.gif

Linux / UNIX sysadmin by day, code hacker by night laugher.gif
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

I disagree... to a point. I recommend picking up and learning a CMS i.e. WordPress, Joomla, or Drupal. These are prebuilt toolkits that have set themes and modules that are very powerful. You will be able to start building nice looking simple websites right away. Learning how to use these tools is very powerful. Not to mention if you intend to do contract work building websites for companies, its a lot easier for them to add and modify content within these systems.

Once you get a bit more experienced, then the PHP and CSS skills will start to come in handy. You can look at a page and say i dont like the alpha on this box, and so you learn how to create a custom css file that will overwrite those settings.

OP said professional website, not cheap stuff....
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by L D4WG View Post

OP said professional website, not cheap stuff....

7 Years ago, this company (Small 5 Employees) asked me to make a few changes to their website http://swanstonarts-usa.com/home.asp ... that's "cheap stuff". At the same time, how long will it take you to build something like that without using a CMS? Also remember that the customer needs to be able to make changes easily. In this case, the original guy who wrote it, made it so that it reads txt files for the descriptions.

Then, think about how fast you can build that site with a CMS... that looks 10x better. Even though I dont have much experience with CMS's, in 1 day I could make something to replace everything there, that looks WAY better. With only spending 1 day, i could probably sell that to them for $1000.

As a person starting off and learning how to use the CMS, it would probably take them a week or two. At the same time, how long will it take them to build a site like the original? How much will they learn from that?

I hated the idea of a CMS originally. I was thinking it was another "FrontPage" like piece of crap tool that made people think they could build a webpage by publishing a word doc. Once I was forced into learning Joomla, that's when I realized how amazing the tool really is.



In short...I probably worded it wrong... Cheap stuff can still look professional. Whatever you do, avoid the stuff like 1on1. I felt bad for a client that i had who hired someone before me, took 3 months, charged $6,000 and gave them an incomplete product and there was nothing i could do to fix it.
Zev's Comp
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDM... GeForce GTX 750 Ti G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DrivePower
1TB HDD 64GB SSD (Used for SRT) 500 GB. Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V... 
Case
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black S... 
  hide details  
Reply
Zev's Comp
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDM... GeForce GTX 750 Ti G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DrivePower
1TB HDD 64GB SSD (Used for SRT) 500 GB. Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V... 
Case
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black S... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by L D4WG View Post

OP said professional website, not cheap stuff....

The White House website is built on Drupal, and being a government-funded project it is by definition not cheap (not even if it stayed within budget tongue.gif).
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E GTX 560 Ti 448 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E GTX 560 Ti 448 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #17 of 17
I agree with others who said that CMS's are good tools and with the company I work for we have a lot of clients who need to be able to add pages, and posts to their site so using Wordpress is a good fit for that situation. The one thing we don't use are plugins, so we will modify the php files as necessary to give the client what they are looking for in a finished product. So working with the php files you can really customize the look and feel of the site and Wordpress has good documentation and support when making changes.

Knowing how the code works and how you can alter it to get the desired effects is definitely something that will make your life easier in the long run.
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
BOINC
(15 items)
 
E5-26XX V2 2P
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel 3770K MSI Z77 MPower MSI R7970 Lightning MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Trident seagate Baracuda Custom Liquid windows 7 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VE248 Microsoft Wireless Corsair HX1000 Cosmos S 
Mouse
Microsoft Wireless 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Q9550 2.83Ghz @ 4.0Ghz 1.328v Gigabyte EP45T-DS3R Ati Radeon hd 6970 Sapphire HD 7970 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair XMS3 seagate Baracuda LG Blu-Ray RW rosewill air cooler 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows Pro 64-Bit none Micosoft Wireless OCZ 1000w 
CaseMouse
Antec 900 Microsoft Wireless 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Xeon E5-26XX V2 2.3-2.7Ghz 10core/20 thread Xeon E5-26XX V2 2.3-2.7Ghz 10core/20 thread SuperMicro x9DAi EVGA GTX 580 
RAMRAMHard DriveCooling
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin ... G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin ... Patriot 16gb Flash drive Hyper 212+ evo 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Hyper 212+ evo Ubuntu 12.04 OCZ Z series 1000w gold Fractal design define xl 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
BOINC
(15 items)
 
E5-26XX V2 2P
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel 3770K MSI Z77 MPower MSI R7970 Lightning MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
G. Skill Trident seagate Baracuda Custom Liquid windows 7 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VE248 Microsoft Wireless Corsair HX1000 Cosmos S 
Mouse
Microsoft Wireless 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Q9550 2.83Ghz @ 4.0Ghz 1.328v Gigabyte EP45T-DS3R Ati Radeon hd 6970 Sapphire HD 7970 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair XMS3 seagate Baracuda LG Blu-Ray RW rosewill air cooler 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows Pro 64-Bit none Micosoft Wireless OCZ 1000w 
CaseMouse
Antec 900 Microsoft Wireless 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Xeon E5-26XX V2 2.3-2.7Ghz 10core/20 thread Xeon E5-26XX V2 2.3-2.7Ghz 10core/20 thread SuperMicro x9DAi EVGA GTX 580 
RAMRAMHard DriveCooling
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin ... G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin ... Patriot 16gb Flash drive Hyper 212+ evo 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Hyper 212+ evo Ubuntu 12.04 OCZ Z series 1000w gold Fractal design define xl 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Web Coding
Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Coding and Programming › Web Coding › How would I start and what would I need to create a professional website?