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post #11 of 19
What I meant was that there are idiots who put the soundcard right next to the gpu, like this little hero here. Then they whine why he gets hissing/popping noise...

Zxr is nice for gaming with high-end headphones.
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post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiihokatti View Post

What I meant was that there are idiots who put the soundcard right next to the gpu, like this little hero here. Then they whine why he gets hissing/popping noise...

Zxr is nice for gaming with high-end headphones.
I see.

My point was, though, that I don't completely agree with putting the sound card inside the computer chassis in the first place. Most gaming sound cards have no objective measurements done anywhere, and are marketed with dubious claims of 124dB signal/noise ratio etc.. You're a knowledgeable guy and you're aware of NwAvGuy ODAC and similar products, I don't completely understand why would you recommend something else than the best measuring products in existence. I would like to hear your opinion on their possible benefits of integrated cards of course, if you feel there are any.

EDIT: custom-molded in ear monitors count as high-end and I wouldn't ever pair them with a sound card that had a 10 ohm impedance, let alone 600 ohms like some advertise themselves. I admit, it's a bit of a rare scenario for an ignorant person to have CIEM, but still.
Edited by seepra - 8/5/13 at 9:59am
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post #13 of 19
You are missing the main problem of this thread, and all the other threads about PC audio.

99% of ocn users are gamers that need the virtual surround of headphones, external DACs don't have that. And the ppl don't have the chance to get anything super-hifi like the ear monitors you mentioned.

For example if I wanted O2, I would have to order it from Swizerland or Germany. Even Fiio is impossible to get without ordering it from abroad and Schiit is plain impossible to get.

For normal european audiophiles high-end is Xonar zxr with Beyerdynamic headphones. And occasionally O2 paired with soundcard and rarely ODAC.

But in a nutshell, the OP should sell both the soundcard and speakers to get more cash for good speakers+avr. But I doubt he is going to listen to us.
Edited by Tiihokatti - 8/5/13 at 12:37pm
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post #14 of 19
I wouldn't say that 99% are gamers, majority but surely there are more than 1% that don't play games other than casually. From what I've experimented, I prefer to game without CMSS 3D or Dolby Headphone, but I might be personally opposed towards spatializers and be as such biased. We're drifting a bit off-topic here, though.

Back to the original topic, if the OP prefers the digital interconnect and finds it sounds better to him, he should use it. (and since the digital data is the same regardless of what sound card do you use to send it, he should also just get rid of the Zxr since it's worth a few dollars and the integrated will work just as well).
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post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiihokatti View Post

I would say that the analog inputs have bad quality (old speakers, that may also be a factor). Or that the Zxr gets lots of EMI (the soundcard isn't next to gpu, right?).
But still, personally I see no point in pairing Zxr with anything made by pc gaming brands...


Interesting... the ZXR is right behind the GPU becuase for some reason it wouldn't work in the other PCIE slots (known issue I think) ... the DB Pro is a few slots away from the GPU though.

I am thinking of upgrading to a "Home Theater in a Box" (i.e., 5.1 speakers + receiver) system from my Z-680s. I've just started looking, but one reason I have been thinking about going the HTIB route is because the receivers I've seen for these tend to have the analog and optical connections as well as HDMI (I still want to be able to hook up my ZXR via optical for gaming, digital movies, music, etc.).

The receivers I've seen that are not associated with a HTIB seem to tend not to have the optical and analog connections ... it is still early though in my process of looking around. My budget is about 400 or less and will likely have to wait for the holiday season.

Initially just based on Newegg's ratings I've been looking at these three systems:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120200

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1J70M02940

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX0TM5775
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post #16 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiihokatti View Post

You are missing the main problem of this thread, and all the other threads about PC audio.

99% of ocn users are gamers that need the virtual surround of headphones, external DACs don't have that. And the ppl don't have the chance to get anything super-hifi like the ear monitors you mentioned.

For example if I wanted O2, I would have to order it from Swizerland or Germany. Even Fiio is impossible to get without ordering it from abroad and Schiit is plain impossible to get.

For normal european audiophiles high-end is Xonar zxr with Beyerdynamic headphones. And occasionally O2 paired with soundcard and rarely ODAC.

But in a nutshell, the OP should sell both the soundcard and speakers to get more cash for good speakers+avr. But I doubt he is going to listen to us.


I will listen to what you have to say... you are saying I would be better off with a good receiver instead of the sound card (and different speakers)?

My only concern there really would be how would I connect for games, digital movies (non Blu ray w/ HDMI in other words), and music? Would I have to go through my internal sound card? Because the sound it produces isn't nearly as good as the ZXRs, and I would think this would be true regardless of the quality of the receiver or speakers...
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post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertdt View Post

I will listen to what you have to say... you are saying I would be better off with a good receiver instead of the sound card (and different speakers)?

My only concern there really would be how would I connect for games, digital movies (non Blu ray w/ HDMI in other words), and music? Would I have to go through my internal sound card? Because the sound it produces isn't nearly as good as the ZXRs, and I would think this would be true regardless of the quality of the receiver or speakers...

If you connect to your receiver via optical, coaxial S/PDIF or HDMI, all of the sounds that happen on your PC will get transported through it to the receiver and from the receiver's speakers. You don't need to route anything from separate cards.

Also, if you use the optical/coax digital connection, it doesn't matter do you use ZXR or integrated sound card, the bits transported will be identical and thus they will sound the same, unless you want to use Dolby Headphone or CSMM 3D, in which case you will have to use the ZXR to enable that feature, THEN use the optical/coax output from the ZXR to the receiver. The integrated won't have the same features as the ZXR but if we disregard software/driver features, the sound quality in itself will be identical and only dependent on your speaker and receiver choice.
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post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
I see.

So lets say I am playing a game and at the moment I notice substantially better sound from my ZXR with analog than from my onboard with analog.


If I get a receiver and speakers and then connect them via analog or HDMI, will that same difference hold?
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post #19 of 19
No, it will not. What is allegedly better in ZXR than on your integrated, is the DAC section. DAC stands for digital to analog converter. If your PCM bit stream (the audio data) is never converted from ones and zeros (digital) to a continuous (pre-)amplified voltage signal (analog) before sending to your receiver (ie: you send it in DIGITAL form), you will completely miss out on the sound quality benefits of the ZXR (less noise floor, less distortion, flatter frequency response and possibly better channel separation), because the receiver will do the DAC conversion for you. The ZXR doesn't do any magic to the data (your files, your games sound samples and sound engine's work) that would make the sound any way better, especially if you use HDMI which is a connector on your GPU and completely bypasses the ZXR.

IF you use the S/PDIF Optical connection from the ZXR to receiver (that is to say, the ZXR is somehow involved in sending the data to the receiver), AND you use the effectifyer crystallizer x-fi virtual surroundifyer ultramega 360 noscope Dolby features in the ZXR settings on your computer, then the digital bit stream will be different, but it will only change the spatial cues and stereo imaging, not the overall sound quality (noise floor etc). When digital data is sent, it's sent with same clarity independent of the device sending it (proprietary formats notwithstanding)

If you can, you will be far better off using the receiver's DAC by running HDMI or optical/coaxial digital to your receiver, rather than run finicky, long, poorly shielded unbalanced cables from ZXR to receiver. This is because the receiver does an extra ADC, which means analog to digital conversion, before it processes the sound and applies any adjustments you've made on the receiver's side, and then it converts it to analog again. This doesn't really destroy the quality half as much, as the long unbalanced analog connection with no good shielding that is also subjectable to ground loops, and inducted interference (buzzing, noise, hums, cracks..)
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