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Game development system coming to Linux... - Page 3

post #21 of 32
At the end of the day if every game going forward could be run in a Linux based environment i'd jump on it. My first experience with Linux was with I think it was red hat in 1999-2000. It definitely was not user friendly and took forever to install. If anyone ever tried BeOS that was a fun little OS unfortunately had no future. I always thought Linux would evolve into something like that and in 2010 I tried Linux Mint and I was very surprised at how great it was. Toss that on a laptop and away you go. However as I use my pc as a work computer / entertainment system dual boot is simply just a complete hassle as some of the software I need to run is only usable with Windows. My bitter disdain for Microsofts DirectX technology seriously would drive me to Linux the minute game developers developed an open source platform that would allow games to run on whatever system. Honestly you would think it would have been done by now seeing as many games end up on pc, playstation, xbox, nintendo ect. it would save I'm a ton of money. Now if Linux can push OpenGL / OpenCL or whatever past the stagnant realm of what DX has brought us and actually pushed hardware makers to push their hardware further then awesome. It would render DirectX obsolete. I just hope DX11 doesn't turn into another 10 year platform or we end up seeing DX9 never really going away. At this point I expect to be very disappointed but that's where I have hope in these open source solutions but they are only as good as what they can offer past what is easily available. Otherwise why switch from the norm?

Side note, looking at running a NAS rig, two options seem to be FreeNas or Ubuntu server. Ubuntu server seems to need command line setup. Is their any software that makes this easy?
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post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

You know what's really sad? Like a blindfolded retard running around in circles. I'm giving Linux a compliment here.
A double handed compliment that's littered with inaccuracies tongue.gif
  • DirectX isn't that bad. In fact it's actually a really nice set of APIs to develop against (or at least was back when I used to build homebrew Windows games)
  • OpenGL doesn't need Linux to flurish - OpenGL is already more widely used that DirectX. In fact it's only Microsoft platforms that OpenGL has any competition - on every other games console, phone/tablet and OS, OpenGL is the clear choice.
  • You don't need to use the console to install drivers in Linux. In fact most of the time you don't even need to manually install drivers.
  • The Linux command line is like DOS in the extent that they're both text based. But in every other way they're completely different (DOS is an OS, the Linux command line is just a shell - eg bash, zsh, etc. It's just the same as Metro (whatever it's called) is just a shell. Except Metro is a touch based and Bash (et al) is text based).
  • Linux shells are several orders of magnitude more powerful than DOS ever was. In fact those shells were more powerful than DOS even back in the UNIX days, before Linux and even DOS even existed. Which is why sys admins like myself still spend so much time in the command line - because it's freeking powerful. (in fact MS have tried to emulate the success of that with numerous attempts of their own shells - from command line WSH scripts, Powershell and even the push to install newer versions of Windows Server without a GUI. None of which have even come close to being as successful as command shells on Linux).
  • And lastly, this game development system has no baring on any of the comments you've raised. If you want to praise anyone for promoting gaming on Linux, it's Steam that deserve the most credit.

Going back to the command line points for one moment, I can totally understand how someone who doesn't know Linux might look at that and think that Linux is behind Windows. It's a common mistake people make and the reason why people like myself don't bother to explain things any longer (instead favouring lazy put-downs like i did yesterday). But when you start to do anything professionally with Linux, you start to realise just how much more powerful, time saving and flexible the command line is. It's just like how many pro-geeks (sys admins, developers, security experts, etc) who use OS X will have a UNIX terminal open on their MacBook most of time.
post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

Side note, looking at running a NAS rig, two options seem to be FreeNas or Ubuntu server. Ubuntu server seems to need command line setup. Is their any software that makes this easy?
Wrong place to ask this (it really should be it's own thread), but I'll answer anyway.

FreeNAS with ZFS. Don't even bother with Ubuntu Server as it will be harder to set up and your data will be held on a vastly inferior file system. smile.gif
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post


You know what's really sad? Like a blindfolded retard running around in circles. I'm giving Linux a compliment here. I do not use Linux (at the moment) look up my what OS should I use thread on a NAS build. But what I see here is a really good way for Linux to benefit OpenGL and vice versa. That I'm excited about! I seriously hate DirectX, we've been using DX9 for 10 years.. Now MS is going ahead and doing with win8 games only so people have to upgrade to a mediocre OS just to have the newest version of DirectX. This is complete garbage for gamers and I honestly do not know how the gaming industry can tolerate it. Nintendo and Sony I can't imagine have any reason to limit their hardware or software so why should we see another decade of mediocre improvements. Look at AMD and Nvidia it's been more efficiency improvements than any leaps and bounds in graphics.

So yeah I'm Mr. Big bad Microsoft user derp derp derp.

Now this is fantastic:
I would say this is the number 1 reason why more users do not switch to Linux, people want simplicity and efficiency adding command lines useless in a business environment. Sorry boss can't work right now trying to figure out these stupid command lines so I can use this computer properly. I guess we better hire someone in IT and pay them 60k a year instead of just buying a copy of windows. I use both OSX and windows. I always thought Linux was cool, I played around with a number of distros but I could never get past the command lines. I have a million other things to do besides tinker with something I know can work perfectly fine by just switching to a different OS. Now does Linux have it's place? Oh absolutely! But if you guys want to call me a troll for stating why I think 90% of other people have no interest in using it then there lies Linux's failure. As the ease of use increases such as what Linux Mint, and Ubuntu notice the correlation with their popularity and success.

 

i'm confused, why is using dx9 bad? what makes using dx 10/11/12 better? why would openGL improve things? why is microsoft bad, by making you use their latest OS for their latest DX?  they did this with vista as well, there comes a time when you have to start discontinue support for inferior software. are nvidia and amd evil too forcing you to upgrade from  3 to 6 year old GPU cause it doesn't support the latest DX or even OpenGL standard? 

 

its called learning btw. I've worked plenty of jobs, even tho we used windows, I was CONSTANTLY having to show people how to do things, even after their training, it wouldn't have been any different if it was linux or mac os x.  learning the command line is no different learning how to use any program, an unwillingness to learn attitude will always make things that much more difficult.  it is why we called you a troll, as you didn't really know what you were talking about with your statement.  you still haven't offered any evidence other than "anecdotal" at best, and then cover it up with saying "its my opinion" when you original charged here, stating it as if it were fact. there are a lot of reasons not to use linux, but unwilling to learn its basics shouldn't be one of them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaero252 View Post


what I was pointing out is that it is no longer necessary to touch a terminal in Linux
... ever.

 

that is not entirely true, you still have to on extreme circumstances :)

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post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

why is microsoft bad, by making you use their latest OS for their latest DX?  they did this with vista as well,
...and XP and Windows 2000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

that is not entirely true, you still have to on extreme circumstances smile.gif
even then you don't have to. Bung in a live cd, back the data up. Then reformat without trying to fix the fault - just like you would do with Windows. tongue.gif
post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post


...and XP and Windows 2000.
even then you don't have to. Bung in a live cd, back the data up. Then reformat without trying to fix the fault - just like you would do with Windows. tongue.gif

windows 2000 had DX? :) i know you could install it on there, but once the XP ship came in, i set sail for it.  yeah i was referring to how this is the defacto standard than outside the status quo. they've done it with all their OS's, since the dawn of DX.  i don't hear any one complaining that you can't play crysis on windows 95...i'm going to google that to see if any one has tried...:)

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post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

windows 2000 had DX? smile.gif i know you could install it on there, but once the XP ship came in, i set sail for it.
Yeah, it shipped Dx7.
For the first few years of XPs life, it was basically just a slower and uglier version of Win2000. Which is why I switched to Linux instead of upgrading to XP. I realised that MS had basically fluked a decent OS with Win2k and everything that would follow would be a succession of progressively worse platforms (Win7 bucked that trend a little, but I still didn't like it). In fact everything that preceded Windows 2000 was crap as well. Windows 2000 is literally the only good platform MS have ever released - so good, it actually outperformed Linux and BeOS in the stability department.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

 yeah i was referring to how this is the defacto standard than outside the status quo. they've done it with all their OS's, since the dawn of DX.  i don't hear any one complaining that you can't play crysis on windows 95...i'm going to google that to see if any one has tried...smile.gif
tbh I think people do complain each time. Particularly around the time of Vista because not only was it crap, but it also broke OpenGL and ASIO (both of which eventually came to Vista). So it meant that if you wanted to support Vista, then you had to use Direct3D for rendering and DirectSound for audio (thankfully though, DirectX is backwards compatible).
Edited by Plan9 - 8/8/13 at 3:02pm
post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

i'm confused, why is using dx9 bad? what makes using dx 10/11/12 better? why would openGL improve things? why is microsoft bad, by making you use their latest OS for their latest DX?

Well first of all DX9 which has been used for 10+ years while DX10 and DX11 have been out. How can we move forward graphically in games if people are still using something that came out with windows XP... If we are forced to update to a new OS just because it has a new version of DirectX well it seems kinda stupid seeing as most games are still using DX9. I'm all for Microsoft making money on non-garbage products but this is bad for the pc market as gamers as we are the ones currently keeping the pc market afloat. Especially bad because Microsoft and DirectX has a huge influence on games across platforms. As Linux users I would imagine this ideology to be pretty much the exact opposite of what you guys would want. Being forced to purchase a new OS because it features a monopolized piece of software in order to play games. Open platforms can do away with the limitations of being bound to a single OS and upgrading to the new OS to take advantage of something so minor. Not to mention how weak graphic development has been in recent years look at video cards there has not been any huge leaps and bounds just better efficiency. They have not had a reason to. I guess it's sad when "can it run Crysis" every few years is the only real judge of how the hardware has changed. You can say this for hardware as a whole, i5 2500k vs. a i5 4670k is barely much of an improvement it's a sad status quo we have accepted. DX 7, 8, and 9 were all pretty big jumps. After 9 well...... 10 years later we're still here. As a consumer I expect more and so should you.
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post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

Well first of all DX9 which has been used for 10+ years while DX10 and DX11 have been out. How can we move forward graphically in games if people are still using something that came out with windows XP...
You do realise that DirectX also receives incremental updates as well? So the DirectX9 of today will have more backported features than the DirectX9 of whenever it was released.

Plus I'm not really sure what you're expecting Direct3D to come up with that would make that much difference to games these days. It's just a layer of abstraction between the graphics card and the game binaries. You tend to see very little in the way of chipset features which require new D3D / OGL extensions. It's usually just a case of updates to shader APIs and what not - but stuff that breaks more code than adds anything substantial. In fact if you take a look through the Direct3D change logs, and you'll see that the biggest update since v9 was multi-threadding - and some games developers have been doing that manually for 10 years already.

The big game break throughs come from physics engines. Newer graphics cards basically just push around more polygons faster and buffer more textures (plus all the standard MEPG decoder stuff for multimedia playback)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

If we are forced to update to a new OS just because it has a new version of DirectX well it seems kinda stupid seeing as most games are still using DX9.
I hate to point out the obvious, but ff most games are still using Dx9 then you're not forced to upgrade your OS tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

I'm all for Microsoft making money on non-garbage products but this is bad for the pc market as gamers as we are the ones currently keeping the pc market afloat.
lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

Especially bad because Microsoft and DirectX has a huge influence on games across platforms.
No they're not. I've already told you that DirectX only runs on Microsoft platforms and the OpenGL is the preferred graphics library for anything non-Microsoft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

As Linux users I would imagine this ideology to be pretty much the exact opposite of what you guys would want. Being forced to purchase a new OS because it features a monopolized piece of software in order to play games. Open platforms can do away with the limitations of being bound to a single OS and upgrading to the new OS to take advantage of something so minor.
Nobody is disagreeing with the conclusion (to paraphrase: Linux gives users freedom). What we disagree with is all the arguments you've made to arrive at your conclusion. It's like you've taken a maths equation, completely screwed up all your workings out, yet fluked the correct answer tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts4 View Post

Not to mention how weak graphic development has been in recent years look at video cards there has not been any huge leaps and bounds just better efficiency. They have not had a reason to.
They have had a reason not to; because there's only so much innovation that can happen within any specific niche.
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I hate to point out the obvious, but ff most games are still using Dx9 then you're not forced to upgrade your OS tongue.gif

Well the new Halo game is win8 only. I see that as a bad thing. Maybe we'll see more Microsoft only titles coming as the war with Sony is going to heat up.
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