Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PSLS] The PS4′s “Big Challenge” is its AMD Chip that “Heavily Relies on Multi-Threading,” Says Planetside 2 Dev
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[PSLS] The PS4′s “Big Challenge” is its AMD Chip that “Heavily Relies on Multi-Threading,” Says Planetside 2 Dev - Page 4  

post #31 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspeedracer View Post

The 7zip bench will let you run up to 8 threads on any quad core cpu and you always get a higher score with more threads even if the cpu doesnt have HT. I ran 4 threads on my i3 530 with HT on and off and got the same score. Certain things just benefit more when you increase the thread count, for example dvdflick will let you run 8 threads on any quad core. An i5 2500k and i7 2600k at the same clocks perform the same when encoding with 8 threads, to me HT is practically a software hack that automatically tells programs to double the threads nothing more. AMD actually has more cores so they will benefit more than Intel when games and programs become more parallel and multi-threaded, but depending on the task, once that happens HT will be almost useless.

Please note that isn't the case for all workloads, firstly even if they split up the workload of the game engine, only the pool resource method would be somewhat linear. Your example of the 7zip workload pegs the cores to the max and ensures an execution almost every clock cycle so hyper-threading doesn't really affect that specific workload (compression and decompression) as much.


Edit:

Also if you look at your task manager and go to the performance tab (assuming windows) you will have a few thousand threads (I have 1308 threads) running, they run over the top of each other linearly and get spread out per core.

The problem with some games is you will have one big single heavy thread that is very taxing which will be your engine thread and then you will have a few other smaller minor threads running less significant things such as a map overlay on your screen or the ingame text chat on bf:3 or the voice chat thread on some games.

This is bad because one core will be maxed out while the other ones will be less worked. This is visible on most games if you look at your task manager or other monitoring programs, you will see in most games one or two cores being worked harder than the others.

Furthermore as one poster said the main "multithreaded" method some games use, as the developed he quoted said, multiple threads for different things within the game engine such as the networking, the physics processing etc.

This will usually be faster than a single core running each of those, however with the method (I believe it was crytek?) was using, they sync it to the frame, so you are only able to get as many frames per second (assuming a worthy GPU) as the slowest working (per frame) of the threads.

This will still show the problem of one core being at 74% and others lounging around at 30%. when they could possibly churn out more frames had they been more spread out.

(Also note that even on CPU bound games at a low res even the CPU will not always function at 100% load).
Edited by JassimH - 8/6/13 at 3:00am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k Rampage 4 extreme GTX Titan (SLI) Corsair dominator platinum 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 pro Vertex 4 12x Bluray Pioneer H100 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NF-F12 Windows 8 Pro 64 bit Qnix 2710 @ 120.1hz Razer blackwidow 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic 1300w Cosmos 2 Razer Taipan Razer Goliathus Extended 
AudioAudioAudio
Xonar Essence STX ATH-AD2000X Bose Companion 20 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k Rampage 4 extreme GTX Titan (SLI) Corsair dominator platinum 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 pro Vertex 4 12x Bluray Pioneer H100 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NF-F12 Windows 8 Pro 64 bit Qnix 2710 @ 120.1hz Razer blackwidow 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic 1300w Cosmos 2 Razer Taipan Razer Goliathus Extended 
AudioAudioAudio
Xonar Essence STX ATH-AD2000X Bose Companion 20 
  hide details  
post #32 of 464
OMG finally, this game runs like crap on my CPU, if they keep this up, all developers with next gen systems and cross platform games I'm going to be a very happy bunny!
post #33 of 464
Correction, if developers want any money this generation, they will have to program their software for multi-threading. Its AMD or inde phone games
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
1055T @ 3.5ghz GA-990XA-UD3 xfx 6850 crossfire 940/1150 @ 1.181v 2133mhz G skill 2x4gig 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb + 250gb DVD drive Cooler master Hyper TX3 Win 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
23.6'' Asus HDMI + 17'' NEC  Microsoft 750W OCZ Antec 
MouseMouse PadAudio
optical none Microsoft life chat 3000 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
1055T @ 3.5ghz GA-990XA-UD3 xfx 6850 crossfire 940/1150 @ 1.181v 2133mhz G skill 2x4gig 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
500gb + 250gb DVD drive Cooler master Hyper TX3 Win 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
23.6'' Asus HDMI + 17'' NEC  Microsoft 750W OCZ Antec 
MouseMouse PadAudio
optical none Microsoft life chat 3000 
  hide details  
post #34 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moustache View Post

Not for Intel though. If this whole thing is true, people will buy AMD CPUs knowing that they are cheaper and can run next-gen games as good as Intel. How is that a win for Intel?
8 core support in games wouldn't make a difference in games with the sse instruction sets being used.
Intel will scale over its cores and AMD will however for AMD this will make their processors sufice on the Intel front that will however mean that unless Intel gimps their future line up a 2 core proc might become the new standard as it does fair enough now.
post #35 of 464
In other words 'Awww AMD sucks because now we have to rewrite our pile of dung of an engine that doesn't know how to properly utilize several threads and tuns like utter garbage even on high end systems'.
Edited by Artikbot - 8/6/13 at 4:33am
   
AGP bencher
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Sapphire HD 6950 2GiB 2x8GB KFA2 HOF DDR4-3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
W10 Pro LG IPS235 LG E2250V KUL ES-87 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
AudioAudio
SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
  hide details  
   
AGP bencher
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Sapphire HD 6950 2GiB 2x8GB KFA2 HOF DDR4-3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
W10 Pro LG IPS235 LG E2250V KUL ES-87 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
AudioAudio
SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
  hide details  
post #36 of 464
Multi- threading physics is very hard. I know, i've tried.
Unto The Void
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6800k Gigabyte G1 X99-Phoenix SLI Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 32GB RipJaw 4 DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 850 500GB Crucial M4 2 x Spinpoint F1 Samsung 850 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Noctua NH-D15S Windows 10 LG Ultrawide 29" Asus 24" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech 810 EVGA P2 650 Watt In Win 303 Logitech G502 
  hide details  
Unto The Void
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6800k Gigabyte G1 X99-Phoenix SLI Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 32GB RipJaw 4 DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 850 500GB Crucial M4 2 x Spinpoint F1 Samsung 850 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Noctua NH-D15S Windows 10 LG Ultrawide 29" Asus 24" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech 810 EVGA P2 650 Watt In Win 303 Logitech G502 
  hide details  
post #37 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

In other words 'Awww AMD sucks because now we have to rewrite our pile of dung of an engine that doesn't know how to properly utilize several threads and tuns like utter garbage even on high end systems'.
This is so true even more so since Ps2 is heavily cpu based just their sloppy code work.
The fact they port it to the PS4 is nice but on the other hand a bit stupid if they fail to utilize all the cores to the fullest like any console title should.
post #38 of 464
They can only split the workload so much, every developer knows that.
post #39 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

They can only split the workload so much, every developer knows that.

Yes, there's a limit to parallelization, and in fact many workloads cannot be parallelized at all.

But there's so many things going on in a game that it's a poor excuse not to use separate threads for the most intensive ones.
   
AGP bencher
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Sapphire HD 6950 2GiB 2x8GB KFA2 HOF DDR4-3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
W10 Pro LG IPS235 LG E2250V KUL ES-87 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
AudioAudio
SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
  hide details  
   
AGP bencher
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Sapphire HD 6950 2GiB 2x8GB KFA2 HOF DDR4-3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
W10 Pro LG IPS235 LG E2250V KUL ES-87 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
AudioAudio
SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
  hide details  
post #40 of 464
Several people on OCN have claimed that next gen consoles won't increase multi-threading for PC ports. I don't know where they get their "facts", especially when both PS4 and XBONE have x86 support.

Consoles will force developers to make their engines multi-threaded if they want to use full potential of CPU. This is great news for both AMD and Intel gamers, except those with dual cores. I knew I made the right call when I chose FX-6300 instead of i3 for cousin who wanted new gaming computer.
Omega Ray
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4,3GHz Asus X99-A USB 3.1 Palit Jetstream GTX 1070 16GB Kingston 2666MHz DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OS: Intel 520 180GB  Games: Crucial BX100 500GB  Noctua NH-D15S Windows 10 Pro X64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer Predator XB270HU  Ozone Tenkeyless MX Brown Corsair AX860i Cooltek W2 Window 
MouseAudio
Mionix Naos 7000 Schiit Modi & Vali + Beyerdynamics DT 990 Pro 
  hide details  
Omega Ray
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4,3GHz Asus X99-A USB 3.1 Palit Jetstream GTX 1070 16GB Kingston 2666MHz DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OS: Intel 520 180GB  Games: Crucial BX100 500GB  Noctua NH-D15S Windows 10 Pro X64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer Predator XB270HU  Ozone Tenkeyless MX Brown Corsair AX860i Cooltek W2 Window 
MouseAudio
Mionix Naos 7000 Schiit Modi & Vali + Beyerdynamics DT 990 Pro 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Game News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PSLS] The PS4′s “Big Challenge” is its AMD Chip that “Heavily Relies on Multi-Threading,” Says Planetside 2 Dev