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[VRZ] AMD confirms Kaveri will be in the hands of enthusiasts in 2014 - Page 12

post #111 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post


Money wasn't part of the discussion.

As for HSA and HUMA. Once the hardware and software is actually there we can discuss it. For now outside of OpenCL stuff the gpu portion of the APU is very much useless. And the latency has not been shown to be a problem for the sort of workloads that software now uses.



No you don't have to use a high end GPU with SB-E but if you bought SB-E and a low end GPU for OCL work then you just don't know what you're doing. No one knowledgeable would actually buy a system like that.

And as for buying two 7990s... Well it just depends on what you want. If you want the maximum amount of OCL performance in application X where AMD does well then you might as well get four or two 7990s. But that means that you did not need a powerful CPU in the first place. In which case why were you even looking at a 3960X? In that case the CPU is irrelevant as long as it can run windows (etc.) well enough. In that case it wouldn't matter if you strapped that amount of GPUs to a phenom II. So why would you then buy an APU in that case?

What I'm still looking for is; what is this 3960X + GT210 rig that's running OCL, who would make it and why would you compare it to an A10-6800K? It's a completely theoretical and nonsensical (from a real world point of view) situation where all you need is theoretical GPU flops but you're comparing CPUs and one of the CPUs isn't allowed a GPU.

No that makes absolutely no sense at all.

I don't think you're getting the point.

With OpenCL the A10-6800K performs just as well as the 3960X.

This is one chip. No discrete GPU involved. And at less than a fifth of the price.

Of course you can add more on to it in the form of discrete coprocessors. That's completely irrelevant to what we're saying. And that is, that this chip can beat Intel's top chip with the right software. And when HSA comes into play with Kaveri, it's going to be very simple to have regular C++ programs offload to the IGP. That's something Intel will never have in the foreseeable future. And the absence of PCI-E latency is huge for AMD with their powerful IGP. Not to mention that Kaveri's IGP will be even stronger.

AMD is effectively utilizing the IGP as a part of the CPU. This is big. This is like when the FPU was integrated onto the CPU, except even better since FPUs were being properly utilized already anyway.

Intel needs a discrete card to get ahead, and that's only in massive operations in which the speed improvement with a discrete GPU would outweigh the latency over PCI-E vs AMD's on-die solution. And on top of that, developers would need to code specifically for this tiny niche in OpenCL -- which, let's face it, is far from enjoyable. HSA makes things far easier for developers and will allow for much more widespread adoption of GPGPU compute.

And you can always add a discrete card to AMD's platform.
Edited by Usario - 8/15/13 at 8:13pm
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post #112 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Use the APU as you wish but you can't use a 3960X without a GPU and that is why your comparison has no relevance in the real world.

The comparison on the whole is dumb. You are comparing a chip meant for main stream use, for 99% of the people out there, for home systems, to a chip that is designed for a heavy work environment. This is like comparing 1 full ton pickup to a family sedan. They are designed for very different jobs and while they share some commonality the truth is they are really not comparable.

Now this argument in the end comes down to someone talking about high end computing. The problem is there is no clear definition of high end. I mean if you are talking about the most RAW CPU horsepower, then the Intel chip wins hands down.if you are talking about what 99% of home users will use it for, playing some games and everyday use then the 3960X is a DUMB purchase and a waste of money.

Now then you want to build an HTPC? The APU is the chip of choice beating out all of Intels offerings in performance and feature set for an HTPC build for the money. General computer use the APU is a better chip with more versatility than an Intel chip.

Building a gaming system? The APU is still a very viable chip with even Anand Techs testing showing that for a single video card up to 1440 resolutions the APU delivers the same gaming experience in most games.

Do Intel chips deliver better on benchmarks, sure they do but we are not talking about benchmarks, we are talking about playing games and the game experience is identical with the AMD chips costing less money.

Sure the FX is actually a better chip for the budget gaming build, the FX 6100 is a super value for gaming builds. However the FX is hard to make small form factor builds with, something a lot of people want to do. Plus the APU offers a nice build up platform for the budget builder. Build your base system with an APU and use the IGPU until you have the money for a nice card and then add it in when you can.

APUs are very viable chips and if you feel the need to wave your **** to show us how great your bigger chips are, please take it elsewhere, the only person impressed is you.
post #113 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

That is to be expected as the 3930K + 7970 rig would be a high end solution. High end solutions are always lower price/performance.

Yes, but when the much cheaper solution isn't that far behind which one do you think is better? Expense for all out performance or cheap for 95% of the performance?

You can get the A10-6800k and a HD7990 with it, leave the iGPU and everything enabled and then see if you can make OpenCL use them all, it'll be faster than an i7 3960X with HD7970...
post #114 of 117
Why not go for the A6-5200(or A6-6200 for hUMA) instead of the A10-6800K?

http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html?pg=05
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post #115 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

Why not go for the A6-5200(or A6-6200 for hUMA) instead of the A10-6800K?

http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/biblioteca/analise/784/amd-a6-5200-kabini.html?pg=05

A10-6800k is a 100w desktop chip while A6-5200 is a 25w notebook chip used for thin and light notebooks. there is no comparison. performance also is in different league. also this thread is about Kaveri and not Kabini or Trinity / Richland
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post #116 of 117
Quote:
Pure CPUs can't be used without a discrete GPU.

They can when the motherboard has integrated graphics.

Logic'd.
post #117 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

They can when the motherboard has integrated graphics.

Logic'd.
That is discrete actually since there is a chip that is not included in the package. (I know it sounds strange but this is the correct way to say it)
But you're right it isn't needed a lot of blade boards have no integrated nor discrete.
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