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Bitspower fittings and water temp sensor corrode??? corrosion after I used a bit of vinegar for 36hrs in the loop with copper sulphate and copper + silver - Page 16

post #151 of 175
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

"facepalm" Not sure how I just now remembered this. Copper sulphate is often used as an electrolyte in electroplating.

yup, I found that out too a few pages back, when I was researching dezincification reaction ... I think I posted a link to some wiki page where it was mentioned too ...

using Copper Sulphate is a very bad idea if there are various metal ions in the water ... and if electro-conductivity additionally raises at some point in one way or another go figure what happens LOL!
vinegar is electrolyte too ... the guy I quoted says you could make a galvanic battery with it ...
plus Silver acts as a chemical reaction catalyst ... doh.gif

a nuclear mixture it was ...
Edited by feniks - 9/15/13 at 7:39am
post #152 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

yup, I found that out too a few pages back, using Copper Sulphate is a very bad idea if there are various metal ions in the water ... and if electro-conductivity additionally raises at some point in one way or another go figure what happens LOL!
vinegar is electrolyte too ... the guy I quoted says you could make a galvanic battery with it ...
plus Silver acts as a chemical reaction catalyst ... doh.gif

a nuclear mixture it was ...

I think my next fill is gunna be with Mayhems XT-1 (Ethylene glycol based concentrate) for some corrosion protection. tongue.gif
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post #153 of 175
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

I think my next fill is gunna be with Mayhems XT-1 (Ethylene glycol based concentrate) for some corrosion protection. tongue.gif

seriously? hmmm ... premix coolants (or concentrates) are expensive ... but yeah, once you keep them in for 6 months then it's OK probably ... hopefully you do not plan any upgrades in meantime wink.gif
what ratio are you planning to run it at?
Mayhems sells it in 150mL bottles for nearly 7 pounds+s/h in UK.

I am giving a trial to distilled with PHN Nuke, zero Silver. will probably test pH occasionally to make sure nothing weird is going on, but honestly there is only 1 nickel plated nozzle, the rest is all brass or copper, the jet plates are solid stainless steel, so I see no problem. I think it's gonna be OK and considered price of distilled I could easily drain & refill it every month if needed

I finally made the extra drain last time, now it's a breeze to drain it completely and effortlessly. It was a problem for me before, because the 360 radiator (mounted vertically) was getting vacuum locked and/or gravity-locked at the pump while draining, extra T-block between pump and rad solved it smile.gif

If I ever encounter any more trouble, I will be switching to Redline Water Wetter ... $10 for 350mL smile.gif someone said 10% ratio is enough... it's pink though ...
post #154 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

seriously? hmmm ... premix coolants (or concentrates) are expensive ... but yeah, once you keep them in for 6 months then it's OK probably ... hopefully you do not plan any upgrades in meantime wink.gif
what ratio are you planning to run it at?
Mayhems sells it in 150mL bottles for nearly 7 pounds+s/h in UK.

I am giving a trial to distilled with PHN Nuke, zero Silver. will probably test pH occasionally to make sure nothing weird is going on, but honestly there is only 1 nickel plated nozzle, the rest is all brass or copper, the jet plates are solid stainless steel, so I see no problem. I think it's gonna be OK and considered price of distilled I could easily drain & refill it every month if needed

I finally made the extra drain last time, now it's a breeze to drain it completely and effortlessly. It was a problem for me before, because the 360 radiator (mounted vertically) was getting vacuum locked and/or gravity-locked at the pump while draining, extra T-block between pump and rad solved it smile.gif

If I ever encounter any more trouble, I will be switching to Redline Water Wetter ... $10 for 350mL smile.gif someone said 10% ratio is enough... it's pink though ...

I'm on the bridge of Mayhems X1 or XT-1.

I've used their stuff before, so it's quality stuff. Dunno, I have a few weeks to decide. Not in a huge rush. The X1 I have in there right now has a LONG life span, so I'm good for now but I got work to do on the loop, and want to change color so yeah.

You can drain the X1 coolants, and run them through a filter, then reuse. I've done it more than a couple times on my build.
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post #155 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

I'm on the bridge of Mayhems X1 or XT-1.

I've used their stuff before, so it's quality stuff. Dunno, I have a few weeks to decide. Not in a huge rush. The X1 I have in there right now has a LONG life span, so I'm good for now but I got work to do on the loop, and want to change color so yeah.

You can drain the X1 coolants, and run them through a filter, then reuse. I've done it more than a couple times on my build.
I use HydrX, although this last time I mixed HydrX PM with HydrX+Fesser ultra pure aqua.
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post #156 of 175
You do know that nickel is used as an underplate for silver plating?

If anything,Silver is bad for copper rather than nickel,seems the aerospace industry even have a term for it....Red plague.

http://events.nace.org/library/corrosion/MatSelect/corrsilver.asp

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=1686498&show=pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_plague_%28corrosion%29

Applies mainly to direct plating or any situation which they can form galvanic cell.
Note that its the poor plating that causes the issue
Pretty much describes your situation to the dot.

So,no,not nickel...more like the combo of the silver and the Nuke...the acid was an accelerator.
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 9/25/13 at 1:13pm
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post #157 of 175
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Silver might be OK for Nickel on its own when no other additives are present or pH is ideal, but vast majority of people runs Copper Sulphate additive (dead water) or doesn't care about pH which decreases over time (especially with copper sulphate). in such meaning the Silver might catalyze certain reactions and somehow the cheap Nickel plating is the first thing that goes. I would assume it might also damage cheap Silver plating since Nickel under it would be leeched out.

Silver vs Copper reaction was unknown to me, good to know that too!

Then we also have Copper vs Nickel reaction if water is electrolytic ...

and yes, in my case the vinegar was the catalyst (not in chemical sense), because it made water more acidic and electro-conductive greatly accelerating everything else that was already going on...
post #158 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

Silver might be OK for Nickel on its own when no other additives are present or pH is ideal, but vast majority of people runs Copper Sulphate additive (dead water) or doesn't care about pH which decreases over time (especially with copper sulphate). in such meaning the Silver might catalyze certain reactions and somehow the cheap Nickel plating is the first thing that goes. I would assume it might also damage cheap Silver plating since Nickel under it would be leeched out.

Silver vs Copper reaction was unknown to me, good to know that too!

Then we also have Copper vs Nickel reaction if water is electrolytic ...

and yes, in my case the vinegar was the catalyst (not in chemical sense), because it made water more acidic and electro-conductive greatly accelerating everything else that was already going on...

My understanding is that the nickel comes off as the copper substrate is leeched away,leaving the nickel with nothing to adhere to.
I have a chemist PHD doing some work into this,I will post his results/explanation when he gets back to me.
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post #159 of 175
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Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

My understanding is that the nickel comes off as the copper substrate is leeched away,leaving the nickel with nothing to adhere to.
I have a chemist PHD doing some work into this,I will post his results/explanation when he gets back to me.

I don't think so. Copper Sulphate doesn't do anything to copper/brass stuff. as far as I know on the other hand it does nasty things to Aluminum, Zinc or Nickel perhaps too, especially when the water is acidic enough or electrolytic or there is enough concentration of copper sulphate itself. might be wrong though, I 'm not a chemist LOL.

Interested in findings from the real chemist PHD guy! smile.gifthumb.gif
post #160 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

My understanding is that the nickel comes off as the copper substrate is leeched away,leaving the nickel with nothing to adhere to.
I have a chemist PHD doing some work into this,I will post his results/explanation when he gets back to me.

I don't think so. Copper Sulphate doesn't do anything to copper/brass stuff. as far as I know on the other hand it does nasty things to Aluminum, Zinc or Nickel perhaps too, especially when the water is acidic enough or electrolytic or there is enough concentration of copper sulphate itself. might be wrong though, I 'm not a chemist LOL.

Interested in findings from the real chemist PHD guy! smile.gifthumb.gif

Copper sulphate? Im talking about the correlation between Silver and copper,not Nuke. If the Copper is being leeched by the Silver then the copper substrate is being removed so the nickel falls off. If waterblock manus went for a full 30um plate rather than the 4-12um plate thats prevalent then this wouldnt be an issue as the plating would protect the copper substrate.
Painted fittings should come of even worse than the plated stuff.

I have used Silver in more than one loop with no ill effects but this has been with Watercool and AC blocks with solid plating,they never get any of the issues that seem to happen to other manu's.

Real community testing,Rubidium is a full on nuclear physicist btw,not the guy im using tho,the guy im using is a PHD chemist that i have known for many years.
http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=47617
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