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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 285

post #2841 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

I've never used a Lamptron CW before. So how does the "target temp" function operate comparing to Asus's Fan Xpert?

The automatic settings on the CW611 lets you choose a min and max fan speed and a target temperature for a channel. I have inline flow meters temp sensors connected to each 'auto'-controlled channel. The fans will run at your min fan speed until the target temp is reached, and then it will begin stepping up the fan speed in increments towards your max fan speed setting. If the temps continue to rise it will increase fan speeds approximately every 2C until it hits your max fan speed setting or the temps begin to go back down.

Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible - I've never used fan expert for anything personally) Fan Expert relies on CPU temps, which is not as good a factor to consider when controlling fans used on rads in a loop as temp sensors in the loop are imho. For example, if your GPU(s) is/are underwater and getting hot, your fans stay at the same speed unless/until the loop gets so hot as to also affect your CPU temps. I wouldn't want to use it to control a pump either for the same reasons (unless you have DDC/MCP35x/PMP400 pumps which need some way to limit their speeds as they are prone to melt-down if run at full speed for lengths of time). PWM fan control is really only suitable imho for use with a CPU-only cooler.

EDIT:
Here's a video someone posted showing the automatic settings of the CW611. Note that they are pinching an air temp sensor between their fingers to force the temp past their channel target ...

Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 2/5/14 at 9:24am
post #2842 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

The automatic settings on the CW611 lets you choose a min and max fan speed and a target temperature for a channel. I have inline flow meters temp sensors connected to each 'auto'-controlled channel. The fans will run at your min fan speed until the target temp is reached, and then it will begin stepping up the fan speed in increments towards your max fan speed setting. If the temps continue to rise it will increase fan speeds approximately every 2C until it hits your max fan speed setting or the temps begin to go back down.

Unless I'm mistaken (entirely possible - I've never used fan expert for anything personally) Fan Expert relies on CPU temps, which is not as good a factor to consider when controlling fans used on rads in a loop as temp sensors in the loop are imho. For example, if your GPU(s) is/are underwater and getting hot, your fans stay at the same speed unless/until the loop gets so hot as to also affect your CPU temps. I wouldn't want to use it to control a pump either for the same reasons (unless you have DDC/MCP35x/PMP400 pumps which need some way to limit their speeds as they are prone to melt-down if run at full speed for lengths of time). PWM fan control is really only suitable imho for use with a CPU-only cooler.

EDIT:
Here's a video someone posted showing the automatic settings of the CW611. Note that they are pinching an air temp sensor between their fingers to force the temp past their channel target ...

It is half true that the Fan Xpert2 relies on CPU temps but u got the point.
Fan Xpert is actually relies on the temp sensor on the motherboard. As shown below, u can defy which sensor controls which fan( 3 sensor maximum per fan), however there is no direct signal input from the GPU, indeed....
I got a Asus Gryphon Z87 and there are 3 temp sensor cable come with the board, maybe I can tape the sensor onto the GPU to make the Fan Xpert work though, just a thought......

So the CW has 6 temp input, are those sensors come with the unit or u get them seperately?
post #2843 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

Wow, I didn't realize the CW615 was out already.
It wasn't out and their rep couldn't say when it might be in Dec.

Hmmmmm, I may get one. lol

EDIT: Nevermind. I believe that's the CM615 you're referring to.
It's only 15 watts per channel and doesn't have watercooling specific features like the CW611. It's been out a while now and is nowhere near as nice of a controller as the CW611.

The CW611 is supposed to be only the first most basic in a new 'CW' line of watercooling controllers from Lamptron, and the other models were originally supposed to come out sometime late in 2013, but their rep posted at the end of November that the newer models weren't going to make it out by the end of the year. Sooooo, still expecting to see one any day now.

Ha...This is the source of the confusion. Frozen (where I saw) mixed up things. Since aesthetically it is so close to the cw611 I thought it was the same but touchscreen version (didn't check the specs either). But notice that fzcpu give both model numbers (cw and cm615).

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21814/bus-367/Lamptron_CM615_-_6_Channel_Aluminum_Touch_Screen_Liquid_Cooling_Controller_-_Black_CW615.html
post #2844 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

It is half true that the Fan Xpert2 relies on CPU temps but u got the point.
Fan Xpert is actually relies on the temp sensor on the motherboard. As shown below, u can defy which sensor controls which fan( 3 sensor maximum per fan), however there is no direct signal input from the GPU, indeed....
I got a Asus Gryphon Z87 and there are 3 temp sensor cable come with the board, maybe I can tape the sensor onto the GPU to make the Fan Xpert work though, just a thought......

So the CW has 6 temp input, are those sensors come with the unit or u get them seperately?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


The controller comes with 6 air temp sensors. I'm not currently using any of them though. I bought inline water temp sensors to use for each of the 3 channels I have fans connected to.

Another reason I'm not thrilled about Fan Expert is I'm not sold on PWM yet. Maybe the Phanteks fan hub would be cool as it lets you use 3-pin fans controlled from a PWM signal but even it apparently isn't rated to handle enough fans to be able to handle push pull on several large rads plus whatever case fans you have. Once you start getting 12-15+ fans, if that many, even with the 12v coming straight from the PSU the PWM signal on many boards just can't handle what the fans need. Heck, some PWM fans apparently require a stronger than normal PWM signal and people report not being able to get more than 3-4 of them to run off a single mobo header even when their 12v is wired to the PSU. When the PWM signal isn't strong enough the fans default to 100%. Then you couple that with the fact that only the CPU headers are actually PWM on most boards and PWM just isn't for me, at least not until I get an Aquaero 6 that can have 4 PWM channels and run a few dozen fans that way. But at what they're asking for an AQ6 that's liable to take me to a few days past never to get one.
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 2/5/14 at 10:04am
post #2845 of 18857
I could be wrong...but wasn‘t the CPU temp read through the motherboard socket pin with built-in thermistor? So how could u get the temp with the CW sensor?
post #2846 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

I could be wrong...but wasn‘t the CPU temp read through the motherboard socket pin with built-in thermistor? So how could u get the temp with the CW sensor?

I don't think you could. Then again, I wouldn't ever want to. Ideally I'd always want the speed of the fans on my rads to be controlled by the temperature of the fluid in my loop.
post #2847 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsim44 View Post

Quick question guys , I am the homedepot to get screws for the fans i got today can any body tell me the size , ran out of the house without my sample, I think i put it down when I got my coat .anyhow , 3x30?

Case Fans or Rad fans ?

Rad Fans here
http://www.overclock.net/t/1439800/radiator-screws-how-come-we-only-get-half

Quote:
Originally Posted by Static-LNX View Post

The rad is not aluminum...

I was speaking in a general sense there.... didn't move onto the Swiftech until the next sentence.


Quote:
The pump used is the same or better than the apogeedrive2 http://www.swiftech.com/apogeedrive2.aspx with a 60,00 MTBF

That may be but it is still not a D5 which is the minimum many would consider suitable for an open loop. I am quite familiar with the Swiftech unit....while a step above the H100i, it's
just 2 dBA quieter....as for videos, this one is I think more relevant in that respect .... tho many people say they only use their computer with headphones on so the noise isn't bothersome.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/03/12/swiftech-h220-vs-corsair-h100i-noise-testing/

Don't get me wrong ....as far as AIOs go, the H220 is one of, of not THE, best one out there, .... If he was going to stay with an Open Loop, I'd say great choice .... tho Id put it in the Phanteks Luxe not the Primo but keep in mind:

1. Their performance is comparable to the better air coolers (Phanteks / Noctua) which not only provide similar thermal performance but also are much, much quieter.
2. To "move on" to a full open loop, the rad is likely the only thing that will stay.

OTOH, the XSPC comes with the 2nd best CPU WB and one of the better rads on the market, comes with the D5 pump ..... not to mention that 140mm rad choice is available in 280 and 420.


Quote:
Originally Posted by grifftech View Post

Hmm I tried plugging in a 12v sensor display to it and got nothing. I assume it is 12V output,

You have to feed the LED PCB with 12V and you can connect a LED strip (assuming you buy one) to the other.....Look at the pic again on page 11 of the manual.

1. No. 7 is the 12V input from your PSU .... without that plugged in, no LEDs work.
2. No. 9 is the plug you connect your LED strip to....the aftermarket one you buy if you want one

For them all to work, the LED case button must be pushed in


Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

Does anyone know what is the power limit for the PWM fan hub per channel?

Based on the manual the hub can handle 11 fans in total( fan1 X1, fan2-6 X2). So, that is about 10w per channel?

Using the provided fans, it's about 3.6 per channel for channels 2 - 6 and 1.8 for the 1st channel.

Fan rating on the web site is stipulated at 0.14 amps and 1.8 watts

http://phanteks.com/PH-F140SP.html
Speed (RPM) - 1200 ± 250 rpm
Max Airflow - 82.1 CFM
Acoustical Noise - 19 dB (A)
Static Pressure - 1.33mm H2O
Input Current - 0.14 A (1.68 watts @ 12v)
Rate Voltage - DC 12V
Input Power - 1.8 W

11 fans x 0.14 amps is 18.48 watts @ 12v or 11 x 1.8 = 19.8 watts on the input side for the whole shebang .... 2 fans pulls 0.28 amps gives ya 3.36 watts per channel and 3.6 amps input side.

I have 8 fans plugged in atm w/o adding the 12V connector so 14.4 watts (1.12 amps) / is OK at least on the M6F....Most MoBo headers are rated at 1 amp though some enthusiast boards will do 2 amps .... and ya shud always leave some room in there for start up inrush current.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

that is quite low....fan options limited.......

Given the option to connect 12V power, I don't think we have much to worry about ..... my guess is it could probably handle at least 50% more than that (30 watts) which I can't imagine needing anything bigger.....at least if one is looking for reasonable sound levels.

If ya go to the phanteks site, you will notice Brian from Phanteks just responded to my inquiry stating an ETA of March. I plan on using two, maybe three hubs ....

1. Case Fans (5)
2. Rad Fans (5)

If I ever go to push / pull (see no reason at this point as five SP140s giving me 8.4C Delta T) .... I'll put 6 fans for the top rad on one hub and 4 fans for the bottom rad on the 3rd.... have 3 available Chassis headers on the MoBo and then can control each of the three PCBs independently with FanXpert2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

Well originally I was planning on connecting 9 YL 140mm fans (D14SH-12, 1800rpm max, draws 0.38A@12V) which probably are twice powerful comparing to stock Ph fans (4.56w vs. 2.4w)....and I really like to control them all with PWM.

With the power limit of 30w or so...I would probably have to get another PWM fan controller....any recommendations?

Just wanted to note that you don't "need" PWM in order for the PCB to work unless you plan on using the 12V feed to the PCB. The PCB works just fine w/ non PWM MoBo headers. Of course if you choose PWM for whatever reason, you'll need something else, but the end result as far as speeds and noise will be the same. Might wanna try it out 1st w/o the controller using PCBs and then only add the extra expense if you find it wanting.

Given the performance I am seeing with 5 rad fans / 5 case fans at 850 rpm max, (which is the point above which the Phanteks become audible) with just push ..... I really can't see needing anything faster / noisier than that unless ya have over 825 - 1100 watts or more of GFX card load.

Model: D14SH-12
Air Flow: 140 CFM
Fan Speed: 2000 RPM
Noise Level: 48.5 dBA

8 of those will be 57.5 dBA at full speed.....compared to 28dBA for the Phanteks SP .... in other words 8 times as loud based upon published specs.
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 2/5/14 at 1:31pm
911 Carrera
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
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911 Carrera
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post #2848 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Case Fans or Rad fans ?

Rad Fans here
http://www.overclock.net/t/1439800/radiator-screws-how-come-we-only-get-half

Quote:
Originally Posted by simsim44 View Post

yea the web page states "March 2013", like I posted before I need to read sssllooowwer. lol rolleyes.gif


edit;
went back to the store this morning and picked up screws 50 SS 6/32, black option was not available, also got a pack of flat washers, like hot dogs, 11 screws to a pack and 36 washers to a pack.



Rad screws, thanks for the link I knew I saw it before I couldn't find it yesterday, I went to lowes, they seemed to have a better selection.
Edited by simsim44 - 2/5/14 at 11:58am
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post #2849 of 18857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

I don't think you could. Then again, I wouldn't ever want to. Ideally I'd always want the speed of the fans on my rads to be controlled by the temperature of the fluid in my loop.

So my question would be, is it possible to output the CPU temp signal to the fan control panel?
post #2850 of 18857
So maybe I'm jumping the gun asking a few questions. But I read thru about the last 15 pages and almost the first 100. I also read the entire mod zoo review. Quite a few of my questions have already been answered but I have a few more.

First has anyone attempted to mod the upper front of the case to be able to slide a 480mm radiator the roughly extra 1/4 inch required to mount the radiator with the ports facing the front. Secondly on this topic, I will be using a UT60 radiator up top. I've been considering only using the half of the radiator (over the 5.25 bays) in push/pull and the rear of the radiator in only pull. The possible reasoning behind this is to not have to worry about clearance issues with the motherboard/fans. I also think this will possibly give a cleaner look than the fans overlapping the motherboard as well. If your curious I will be using a ASUS X79 Deluxe motherboard.

Second, I will be using a 480mm Monsta on the bottom of the case in push/pull. With this being said which orientation should I use the fans. Should I suck air from the bottom and release hot air into the case or should I do the opposite. Take air from the case and push it out the bottom? Also for the drain port I was planning on using one of the rear facing ports on the radiator to put a quick connect coupling coming out of the rear of the case. This way I wouldn't have to always have the drain port connected and taking up more space behind the case.

I took pictures and made them all fancy in paint. But 3 hours later the picture upload is telling me one moment still! I'll attempt to reload them again later so that hopefully my jibberish makes sense biggrin.gif
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