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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 286

post #2851 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhlragnarok View Post

So my question would be, is it possible to output the CPU temp signal to the fan control panel?

That's what I thought you were asking before when I wrote that I didn't think that you could. Or if it is possible I wouldn't know how unless the mobo specifically had temp probe output pins or some such for just such a purpose.
post #2852 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by resetg View Post

So maybe I'm jumping the gun asking a few questions. But I read thru about the last 15 pages and almost the first 100. I also read the entire mod zoo review. Quite a few of my questions have already been answered but I have a few more.

First has anyone attempted to mod the upper front of the case to be able to slide a 480mm radiator the roughly extra 1/4 inch required to mount the radiator with the ports facing the front. Secondly on this topic, I will be using a UT60 radiator up top. I've been considering only using the half of the radiator (over the 5.25 bays) in push/pull and the rear of the radiator in only pull. The possible reasoning behind this is to not have to worry about clearance issues with the motherboard/fans. I also think this will possibly give a cleaner look than the fans overlapping the motherboard as well. If your curious I will be using a ASUS X79 Deluxe motherboard.

Second, I will be using a 480mm Monsta on the bottom of the case in push/pull. With this being said which orientation should I use the fans. Should I suck air from the bottom and release hot air into the case or should I do the opposite. Take air from the case and push it out the bottom? Also for the drain port I was planning on using one of the rear facing ports on the radiator to put a quick connect coupling coming out of the rear of the case. This way I wouldn't have to always have the drain port connected and taking up more space behind the case.

I took pictures and made them all fancy in paint. But 3 hours later the picture upload is telling me one moment still! I'll attempt to reload them again later so that hopefully my jibberish makes sense biggrin.gif

There's not enough room / allowances in the design of the top to mount a 480 rad with the ports towards the front. Even if you modded it to do so then the top filter cover would not go back on, at least not without modding it too somehow and I don't see any obvious ways to accomplish either feat. The fan filter cover in the top just fits exactly the four 120 fans on a 480 mounted with the ports towards the rear of the case. If you managed to flip the rad around all the fans would need to be able to move ~25mm or so towards the rear, and that's right where the top push-click fittings for the top filter are located.

A 480 UT60 with push fans would overhang the top 15mm of the mobo with 54mm of offset (so you couldn't have anything taller than 54mm in the top 15mm of the mobo). If that's not acceptable to you you really might want to consider running an Xt45 in push-pull up top instead. An Xt45 in push-pull would not overhang the board at all and would yield better cooling performance than a UT60 in just push or pull. Just tossing that out there.

As far as a drain line goes, a QDC or valve out the back would be one option, or you might consider mounting the rad with the ports towards the front and use one of the bottom-facing ports to mount a 90 deg rotary to a valve or QDC similar to this ...

Enthoo Primo Drain Port

That's from a 360 monsta installed in push-pull with the ports towards the front of the case so the HDD cages were able to be kept in place, but there's no reason I can see why you couldn't do something similar with a 480 down there, and then your drain port will be behind the right-side panel instead of sticking out the back of the case.
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 2/5/14 at 2:33pm
post #2853 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by resetg View Post

So maybe I'm jumping the gun asking a few questions. But I read thru about the last 15 pages and almost the first 100. I also read the entire mod zoo review. Quite a few of my questions have already been answered but I have a few more.

First has anyone attempted to mod the upper front of the case to be able to slide a 480mm radiator the roughly extra 1/4 inch required to mount the radiator with the ports facing the front. Secondly on this topic, I will be using a UT60 radiator up top. I've been considering only using the half of the radiator (over the 5.25 bays) in push/pull and the rear of the radiator in only pull. The possible reasoning behind this is to not have to worry about clearance issues with the motherboard/fans. I also think this will possibly give a cleaner look than the fans overlapping the motherboard as well. If your curious I will be using a ASUS X79 Deluxe motherboard.

Second, I will be using a 480mm Monsta on the bottom of the case in push/pull. With this being said which orientation should I use the fans. Should I suck air from the bottom and release hot air into the case or should I do the opposite. Take air from the case and push it out the bottom? Also for the drain port I was planning on using one of the rear facing ports on the radiator to put a quick connect coupling coming out of the rear of the case. This way I wouldn't have to always have the drain port connected and taking up more space behind the case.

I took pictures and made them all fancy in paint. But 3 hours later the picture upload is telling me one moment still! I'll attempt to reload them again later so that hopefully my jibberish makes sense biggrin.gif


Taking a step back 1st, what is the ultimate build out of your system ? I mean in the future maybe a 2nd 780 Ti or more ? Not that there's anything wrong with overkill smile.gif. but just throwing out that if that's the load, twin 480s is more way than ya need. using the data available at martinsliquidlab site and calculating ya load from published data, I come up with the following based upin a 4820k OC's to 4.8 w/ 1.4v, twin 780 Tis, WC Blocks on RAM, 2 MoBo blocks and a 35x2 double pump:

Heat produced =736 watts stock / 984 watts overclocked to the wall. I usually figure about 60% of that needs to be handled by the rads and that would be 590 watts ... With 1800 rpm fans your UT60-480 and Monsta 480 will provide about 887 watts in push pull ..... 734 in push only.... that's way more than ya need for a target Delta T of 10C.

At 1250 rpm you'd have 621 (63%) watts in push pull and 514 (53%) watts ..... now my build.... same as assumed above but 780s instead of 780 Tis and I didn't cool RAM I was at almost the exact same spot 64% in Push Pull and 53% in push only ..... due to the limited availability of the Phanteks fans, I started out with just push and figured Id add pull later. As it turned out tho .... my Delta T is only 8.4C at 1200 rpm under furmark so I figured why bother adding the other 5 fans...... NOTE if furmark loaded the CPU at 100%, I calculated it to be about 9.8C

So if ya keep the 480s....I'd top out at 1250 rpm fans ....


Other comments ......

1. Rad thickness is almost immaterial .... For example at 1800 rpm, a XT45-480 gives you 343 watts of cooling compared to the 359 offered by the UT60. At 1250 rpm it's 296 and 303 watts ..... now with ya comments about blocking the MoBo and only doing half the rads.....

At 1250 rpm.... UT60-480 gonna give you 125 watts for the sections with single fan and + 152 for those in push pull or 277
At 1250 rpm.... XT60-420 gonna give you 302 watts in push pull w/ no obstruction of MoBo.

That will:

a) Eliminate ya obstruction worry
b) Give you 9% more cooling
c) Let ya use the fans that come with the case
d) Eliminate ya fit issue about ports

I chose to drop from the UT60 to XT45 as otherwise in Push / Pull access to the EPS cable, MPCIA combo card, mem OK LED, voltage monitoring ports and error display was blocked with the UT60.

A XT45-420 on top and Monsta 480 on bottom w/ 1250 rpm Phanteks fans fans will give ya 513 watts w/a single fan and 620 with push / pull.
A XT45-420 on top and Monsta 480 on bottom w/ 1400 rpm Yate Loon (medium speed) fans will give ya 575 watts w/a single fan and 696 with push / pull.

All fans should, IMO, pull air from the outside into the case......Notes:

1. The bottom intake is notable restricted .... doesn't affect me too much with a 280 on the bottom but with 480 down there, you're gonna wanna raise the case off the desk / flow at least 1.5".

2. The top air inlet filter / grille is very restrictive...... I was seeing a 1.3C temp drop across my bottom 280 as compared to the 0.9 drop on the top 420 ..... lifting the case up and removing the filters reduced my delta T by 4C

Your drain port idea was my 2nd choice.... I went with my 1st so I didn't have to carve up case and this option was a lot cleaner.....



If ya go with the 420 on top, bleed / fill ports also become an option.




Here's the calcs I did for ya system .....

Resetg-radcalcs.XLS 10k .XLS file

Use the data with the other info here if ya wanna look at various options.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457426/radiator-size-estimator
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 2/5/14 at 2:56pm
911 Carrera
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911 Carrera
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Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
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post #2854 of 18689
Hello! I have a few questions about what radiators can and can't be used in the Enthoo Primo. I wish I could, but I don't have time to read all 286 pages. So, I am sorry if my questions have already been answered.
I want to first know how big of a 480 radiator can be put in the top of the case. I want to do push/pull with a 480 in a top. So please list the biggest I should go in height while comfortably having room with push/pull.
My second question is, can you put a 480 rad in the bottom? I do not want to disassemble or modify the metal piece(s) that hide the hard drive and expansion bays. If possible, I would want to fit a http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16237/ex-rad-412/Alphacool_NexXxoS_Monsta_Quad_120mm_Radiator_-_80mm_Thick.html?tl=g30c95s570#blank in the bottom and then put a 280 or something at the top for better piece of mind. Is it possible to do this? If modding is required, what kind of modding would I have to do. I wouldn't mind drilling an extra hole or whatever, but I want to keep the HDD cage metal hiding piece intact.
And my third and final question is, what are my limits for a 240mm rad, in push/pull, in the front of the case. I would like to fit a thick rad, but also keep the top hard drive cage installed. Would it be possible to have that 480 rad in the bottom and the 240 in the front, or would I have to mount the 240 to the side (which isn't a problem).
I just need to know these things so I can plan out my loop and figure out how many fans needed. I would rather have push/pull going that way I could run all the fans at lower rpm. But if it is unrealistic in some situations it's not a big deal.
Thanks for any and all help!
post #2855 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumferknuckle View Post

Hello! I have a few questions about what radiators can and can't be used in the Enthoo Primo. I wish I could, but I don't have time to read all 286 pages. So, I am sorry if my questions have already been answered.
I want to first know how big of a 480 radiator can be put in the top of the case. I want to do push/pull with a 480 in a top. So please list the biggest I should go in height while comfortably having room with push/pull.
My second question is, can you put a 480 rad in the bottom? I do not want to disassemble or modify the metal piece(s) that hide the hard drive and expansion bays. If possible, I would want to fit a http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16237/ex-rad-412/Alphacool_NexXxoS_Monsta_Quad_120mm_Radiator_-_80mm_Thick.html?tl=g30c95s570#blank in the bottom and then put a 280 or something at the top for better piece of mind. Is it possible to do this? If modding is required, what kind of modding would I have to do. I wouldn't mind drilling an extra hole or whatever, but I want to keep the HDD cage metal hiding piece intact.
And my third and final question is, what are my limits for a 240mm rad, in push/pull, in the front of the case. I would like to fit a thick rad, but also keep the top hard drive cage installed. Would it be possible to have that 480 rad in the bottom and the 240 in the front, or would I have to mount the 240 to the side (which isn't a problem).
I just need to know these things so I can plan out my loop and figure out how many fans needed. I would rather have push/pull going that way I could run all the fans at lower rpm. But if it is unrealistic in some situations it's not a big deal.
Thanks for any and all help!

The answers to most of your questions can be found in the FAQs on the first post of this thread.

A 45mm thick 480 (or 420) will fit up top in push-pull with any motherboard. Any thicker of a rad and the radiator will overhang top of the motherboard.

A 480 monsta in push pull will fit in the bottom but you will have to remove the bottom HDD cage (holds 3 HDDs). You can still keep the top HDD cage in place (plus there's also the 2 brackets that can hold 2 SSDs each). The HDD cages are modular and made so they can be moved / removed without any modding. They are secured in place with thumbscrews. If you do not want to lose any of the HDD cages then you can fit a 360 monsta in push pull in the bottom without losing anything. The HDD cages will have to be moved to their most-forward position.

There is not room for a 240 in the front with a 480 in the bottom or with a 360 in the bottom and both HDD cages in place. You could put a 360 in the bottom, lose the bottom HDD cage & then be able to fit a 240 in the front, OR, you can mount a 240 in the right side and a 480 in the bottom, but then you will have to lose both HDD cages.

Do note that any 360 or 480 rads in the bottom cannot be more than 125mm wide. Alphacools fit. Many other types of rads will not.
post #2856 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

The answers to most of your questions can be found in the FAQs on the first post of this thread.

A 45mm thick 480 (or 420) will fit up top in push-pull with any motherboard. Any thicker of a rad and the radiator will overhang top of the motherboard.

A 480 monsta in push pull will fit in the bottom but you will have to remove the bottom HDD cage (holds 3 HDDs). You can still keep the top HDD cage in place (plus there's also the 2 brackets that can hold 2 SSDs each). The HDD cages are modular and made so they can be moved / removed without any modding. They are secured in place with thumbscrews. If you do not want to lose any of the HDD cages then you can fit a 360 monsta in push pull in the bottom without losing anything. The HDD cages will have to be moved to their most-forward position.

There is not room for a 240 in the front with a 480 in the bottom or with a 360 in the bottom and both HDD cages in place. You could put a 360 in the bottom, lose the bottom HDD cage & then be able to fit a 240 in the front, OR, you can mount a 240 in the right side and a 480 in the bottom, but then you will have to lose both HDD cages.

Do note that any 360 or 480 rads in the bottom cannot be more than 125mm wide. Alphacools fit. Many other types of rads will not.


Yep. Finally you can have (loosing both hd cages) have 480 (or 420) up, 280 bottom and 2x 240 (front and side) which would be one of the largest combination of rad space in the Enthoo without going external.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Taking a step back 1st, what is the ultimate build out of your system ? I mean in the future maybe a 2nd 780 Ti or more ? Not that there's anything wrong with overkill smile.gif. but just throwing out that if that's the load, twin 480s is more way than ya need. using the data available at martinsliquidlab site and calculating ya load from published data, I come up with the following based upin a 4820k OC's to 4.8 w/ 1.4v, twin 780 Tis, WC Blocks on RAM, 2 MoBo blocks and a 35x2 double pump:

Heat produced =736 watts stock / 984 watts overclocked to the wall. I usually figure about 60% of that needs to be handled by the rads and that would be 590 watts ... With 1800 rpm fans your UT60-480 and Monsta 480 will provide about 887 watts in push pull ..... 734 in push only.... that's way more than ya need for a target Delta T of 10C.

At 1250 rpm you'd have 621 (63%) watts in push pull and 514 (53%) watts ..... now my build.... same as assumed above but 780s instead of 780 Tis and I didn't cool RAM I was at almost the exact same spot 64% in Push Pull and 53% in push only ..... due to the limited availability of the Phanteks fans, I started out with just push and figured Id add pull later. As it turned out tho .... my Delta T is only 8.4C at 1200 rpm under furmark so I figured why bother adding the other 5 fans...... NOTE if furmark loaded the CPU at 100%, I calculated it to be about 9.8C

So if ya keep the 480s....I'd top out at 1250 rpm fans ....


Other comments ......

1. Rad thickness is almost immaterial .... For example at 1800 rpm, a XT45-480 gives you 343 watts of cooling compared to the 359 offered by the UT60. At 1250 rpm it's 296 and 303 watts ..... now with ya comments about blocking the MoBo and only doing half the rads.....

At 1250 rpm.... UT60-480 gonna give you 125 watts for the sections with single fan and + 152 for those in push pull or 277
At 1250 rpm.... XT60-420 gonna give you 302 watts in push pull w/ no obstruction of MoBo.

That will:

a) Eliminate ya obstruction worry
b) Give you 9% more cooling
c) Let ya use the fans that come with the case
d) Eliminate ya fit issue about ports

I chose to drop from the UT60 to XT45 as otherwise in Push / Pull access to the EPS cable, MPCIA combo card, mem OK LED, voltage monitoring ports and error display was blocked with the UT60.

A XT45-420 on top and Monsta 480 on bottom w/ 1250 rpm Phanteks fans fans will give ya 513 watts w/a single fan and 620 with push / pull.
A XT45-420 on top and Monsta 480 on bottom w/ 1400 rpm Yate Loon (medium speed) fans will give ya 575 watts w/a single fan and 696 with push / pull.

All fans should, IMO, pull air from the outside into the case......Notes:

1. The bottom intake is notable restricted .... doesn't affect me too much with a 280 on the bottom but with 480 down there, you're gonna wanna raise the case off the desk / flow at least 1.5".

2. The top air inlet filter / grille is very restrictive...... I was seeing a 1.3C temp drop across my bottom 280 as compared to the 0.9 drop on the top 420 ..... lifting the case up and removing the filters reduced my delta T by 4C

Your drain port idea was my 2nd choice.... I went with my 1st so I didn't have to carve up case and this option was a lot cleaner.....



If ya go with the 420 on top, bleed / fill ports also become an option.




Here's the calcs I did for ya system .....

Resetg-radcalcs.XLS 10k .XLS file

Use the data with the other info here if ya wanna look at various options.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457426/radiator-size-estimator

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by resetg View Post

So maybe I'm jumping the gun asking a few questions. But I read thru about the last 15 pages and almost the first 100. I also read the entire mod zoo review. Quite a few of my questions have already been answered but I have a few more.

First has anyone attempted to mod the upper front of the case to be able to slide a 480mm radiator the roughly extra 1/4 inch required to mount the radiator with the ports facing the front. Secondly on this topic, I will be using a UT60 radiator up top. I've been considering only using the half of the radiator (over the 5.25 bays) in push/pull and the rear of the radiator in only pull. The possible reasoning behind this is to not have to worry about clearance issues with the motherboard/fans. I also think this will possibly give a cleaner look than the fans overlapping the motherboard as well. If your curious I will be using a ASUS X79 Deluxe motherboard.

Second, I will be using a 480mm Monsta on the bottom of the case in push/pull. With this being said which orientation should I use the fans. Should I suck air from the bottom and release hot air into the case or should I do the opposite. Take air from the case and push it out the bottom? Also for the drain port I was planning on using one of the rear facing ports on the radiator to put a quick connect coupling coming out of the rear of the case. This way I wouldn't have to always have the drain port connected and taking up more space behind the case.

I took pictures and made them all fancy in paint. But 3 hours later the picture upload is telling me one moment still! I'll attempt to reload them again later so that hopefully my jibberish makes sense biggrin.gif

Yep, I agree with Jack. I have a 480 mm xt45 top, a very slim 30mm xspc 280 mm bottom and 2x 240mm (also 30 mm OCool) front. With fans in push and pull (except the top rad with only half of it in push/pull) I got like 8 degrees C of delta under heavy prime95. Hell, even running prime95 blend test and call of duty ghost at the same time ohno-smiley.gif gave me only 8 degrees C of delta (amb. temp of 30 C water temp around 37.5) with fans at 48% (GT AP15 and Phanteeks 140 mm). If I would build today I would go with a 420 xt45 on top (in fact I already order that to replace the 480 mm xt45. One additional advantage over the 480 mm (besides those cited by Jack) is that you have a little more room on the drive bays. From my measurements I think you could squeeze the fan controller on the top bay (to be confirmed yet when the parts arrived).
Edited by Gabrielzm - 2/5/14 at 5:10pm
post #2857 of 18689
Right..... I'm just about to do hybrid (watercooling CPU + aircooling GPU) so I was thinking about controlling the fans with CPU temp.

But it does make more sense to control the fans with water temp when doing full water cooling and that is what I’m going for now.

Thank you~
post #2858 of 18689
When I'm considering hydraulic resistance.....a question came up....... Does anyone run their 420 rad in low position using the "front" connections instead of the "top" ones?
post #2859 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumferknuckle View Post

Hello! I have a few questions about what radiators can and can't be used in the Enthoo Primo. I wish I could, but I don't have time to read all 286 pages. So, I am sorry if my questions have already been answered.
I want to first know how big of a 480 radiator can be put in the top of the case. I want to do push/pull with a 480 in a top. So please list the biggest I should go in height while comfortably having room with push/pull.
My second question is, can you put a 480 rad in the bottom? I do not want to disassemble or modify the metal piece(s) that hide the hard drive and expansion bays. If possible, I would want to fit a http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16237/ex-rad-412/Alphacool_NexXxoS_Monsta_Quad_120mm_Radiator_-_80mm_Thick.html?tl=g30c95s570#blank in the bottom and then put a 280 or something at the top for better piece of mind. Is it possible to do this? If modding is required, what kind of modding would I have to do. I wouldn't mind drilling an extra hole or whatever, but I want to keep the HDD cage metal hiding piece intact.
And my third and final question is, what are my limits for a 240mm rad, in push/pull, in the front of the case. I would like to fit a thick rad, but also keep the top hard drive cage installed. Would it be possible to have that 480 rad in the bottom and the 240 in the front, or would I have to mount the 240 to the side (which isn't a problem).
I just need to know these things so I can plan out my loop and figure out how many fans needed. I would rather have push/pull going that way I could run all the fans at lower rpm. But if it is unrealistic in some situations it's not a big deal.
Thanks for any and all help!

With a 45 mm thick in the top and a 80 mm in the bottom and 3 sets of fans (one set in top compartment of course) you could even fit a 360 in the middle like i did thumb.gif a 240 will also fit nice with no restraint in how many sets of fans you use smile.gif

This would then limit you to either a bay res or a small tube res though and tubing can get a bit tricky with the 360, but i think mine turned out ok

Edit: the 360 could also work with a 420 up top but i dont got first hand experience going that route and welcome to the forums biggrin.gif
Edited by Roxycon - 2/5/14 at 5:31pm
evolv
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evolv
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ek supremacy evo ek GTX 1080 full cover block  EK vardar F1 windows 10 pro 
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post #2860 of 18689
Thanks for all that amazing info Jack!

But I guess from the get-go my thoughts of this build were completely overkill. So I kinda kept with the theme! I've always been on the side of to-much is better than not enough! But with the idea of complete overkill on the rads was to attempt to run lower fan speeds in an attempt to keep the system from sounding like a turbo diesel taking off!

Part of the idea of turning the upper radiator around was also to keep the actual loop itself smaller. Where it would be the entire distance of the case to get to the rad to about 6-7 inches at most. I really like that idea of the drain much better than cutting through the rear of the case!

But in my excitement I sorta jumped the gun and already bought the radiators.....part of the reason I ordered before thinking was all the vids I've seen showed 480's up top in push/pull like it was nothing (demo videos on newegg).

I can't get pics to load so here's a direct link:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/resetg/20140205_150545-1.jpg
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