Originally Posted by smoke420
Thanks for the advice. I decided to keep the second damaged case I received from Newegg and get replacement parts through Phanteks. Love the way this thing is designed. I have no 140mm based rads but could still use all the stock Phanteks fans. 3 in the top as push on my 360 and 2 in the front push on the 240. 14 fans on a single motherboard header you got to love it.
Let me know what you guys think. Also what is a good program to control fan speeds? speed fan is great but I can't get it to load at start-up.
I have had great success getting parts I asked for and even bonus parts I didn't ask for from Phanteks and I agree that the design is phenomenal.
As for the 14 fans on a single header ? The Phanteks PCB will handle 11 if you plug the fans into the PCB and the lead from the PCB to a MoBo header ..... you should be using the 12V power feed to the PCB if you are doing this but that will eliminate any voltage control from the MoBo chassis headers. If however you use a PWM header (CPU-1 or CPU-2) you should be fine. I would not recommend more than 7 Phanteks fans on the PCB w/o using the 12V PSU cable to t e PCB though I have to admit to running 8 at present.....otherwise the amp draw on ya MoBo header could be a bit more than it can handle.
I'm using Asus FanXpert2 to control fan speeds; it has far more flexibility than BIOS control and it tines itself to each individual header. SpeedFan doesn't load on my system either.
Originally Posted by Fumferknuckle
I do agree that a 420 and a 280 would probably be overkill as is but if I get one of those white 420 rads I feel obligated to get another just for posterity.
Looking at Snef's Purple Chimera build, it seems he used acrylic tubing (I'm assuming). It looks rigid and not like regular "bendy" tubing. I really like that look. That's what also makes that build you included Jack look so epic. Can you guys give me a run down of that stuff? I have heard of tubing where you heat it with something like a blow torch to then bend it. That's what that tubing looks like in Snef's pictures and Jack's included picture.
If I do another I will use 280 + 420 in white .... I didn't do any bending ..... My firm designs wastewater treatment plants and having this thing sitting on my desk, when clients come in, I wanted it to be a representation of what my firm does. So I was going for an "industrial plant" look with the fittings much as we see in the plants we build. I have taken it apart twice already to "fix" things where a tube was off vertical or horizontal by a mm or half of one and with the new position of the case on my desk, looking from another angle, I found another tube that "offends my sensibilities"
.... so will be fixing that one when I take it down for 1 year maintenance and inspection....prolly gotta shave a half mm off and it will be puuuurrrfect.
From a build standpoint, that's the main thing to my mind between bent tubing and fittings ..... if you have a multiple bend on a tube that is 1mm off, it can be very hard to fix; straight tubing and fittings is ez.... pull the tube, shave a mm put it back..... only working in a single dimension so anything is easily fixable.
I like both methods aesthetically. Bent builds look a bit more artistic / flashy, but if I had to pick just one, I'd do fittings as I prefer the more sedate look. My son is planning post college graduation build and we are planning on bent acrylic for that one. Ya don't use a blow torch, just a heat gun.....essentially a very robust hair dryer
. For all you ever wanted to know about acrylic pipe bending, look here:
I am having a tough time picturing all this in my head. The Formula in the back of the White Enthoo Primo, with two big graphics cards (780's) sitting in the PCI slots, dual 420 White Editon Alphacool rads with Phantek's fans mounted on them while white tubing runs to and from every component, including a big EK White res to the side of the GPU's and white tubing corner pieces for aesthetics. It sounds cool all typed out, but I feel like it may not have enough contrast, and too much white. I may be over thinking it, but I want to be sure I will like it once it's all together. I was thinking about how it may be better to get that black version of that Primo, and have the white rads and tubing for contrast. And then the Phanteks fans would also help with some more contrast because the exterior part of the fan is black, while the blades are white. So it would be in push/pull: Black(fan)-White(rad)-Black/White(fan) and white tubing running from that rad to the CPU block or whatever. Hmm.. Maybe it would be black Primo, white rads, black corner tube pieces, white tubing, black/white fans, and the black/red motherboard in the background. And assuming I go with the XSPC gpu blocks, black graphics cards with blue LEDs to match the case
I hear ya..... remember the GFX card backplates are black..... CPU block Id recommend clear plexi so ya can see inside. To get an idea of the Formula with white rads / black case, ya can use my pic and use Paint program to block out the rads in white. Again, that's exactly what i was going to do but then it seemed with that much white, it's no longer a contrast or highlight. Id use white rads with a white case and black rads with a black..... if ya have 5 fans in pull with white blades on top of the rads and all that other white in a black case seems "too much".
Jack, do you really think the EK water blocks are better than the XSPC one? I watched the video you linked, and besides the VRM temperatures, the XSPC block actually tied it if not beat it. Plus, it seems I can't really rely on those temps too much. In the video, the guy was testing only Titans (or at least that's how he was making it seem) and not on 780s.
Exact same block for reference cards ..... of course not always true with those offerings with non-reference PCBs. See EK's description.
EK-FC780 GTX Ti is a high performance full-cover water block for nVidia reference (NVA-P2083) design GeForce GTX 780 Ti, GTX 780 as well as GTX Titan series graphics cards.
As for the XSPC versus EK comparison, I didn't see any ties. The differences in the GPU temps were small with < 2C separating.....but on the VRM and RAM it's huge..
EK VRAM temps is 10.2C, XSPC is 8.6 C (See 17:00 mark) .... that's 1.6C, advantage XSPC
EK VRAM temps is 22C, XSPC is 28C (See 21;50 mark) .... that's 6C, advantage EK
EK VRM temps is 33C, XSPC is 46C (see 23:00 mark) ..... that's 13C, advantage EK
I feel the temps for VRM for, say the EVGA Super Clocked 780 would be different, if not better. I'm no tech guru or whatever, but it seems kinda one sided. I do enjoy the look of both blocks, though the EK would probably look better if I was using colored liquid (although you wouldn't really see it lol).
Oh, and what did you mean when you were talking deltas? I got confused when you mentioned removing dust filters/grilles. Can you explain what you mean some more?
The EVGA SC series is a reference board and is the only card I ever consistently recommend against. The SC series cards are the only factory OC'd cards on the market from the major vendors that uses a "stock" PCB and reference VRM. It does have a half way decent cooler which you are going to promptly remove before installing your WB. So you pay a premium for a cooler .... the only thing on the SC series that is not "stock" ..... so why pay a premium when the only thing you got for paying extra, you are going to put in a box or toss out ? And then you're gimped by a substantially weaker VRM whereas all the competition's same price cards have VRMs are substantially beefier.
Delta T's represent the delta or change in temperature between two things you are interested in. For example the system delta T is the difference between the ambient air and the coolant.... it is in effect the single relevant performance criteria as yo how well your rads are doing their job. Block Delta T is the temp difference between the CPU or GPU and the temp of the coolant.
As for the fans, performance is gimped by any resistance placed in its way .... the grille above your fans provide air resistance / friction so that reduces air flow.... air filters provide air resistance / friction so that reduces air flow. So if the performance of your fans is reduced by things that inhibit its performance, the performance of your radiators are similarly influenced. The filters, grilles and limited air flow area on the bottom ..... these all work to reduce performance by about 33%.
Also, I got a bit lost when you started talking about graphics card lengths and the reservoirs that could or could not fit with them. I will be using 2 way SLI 780 Super Clocked cards by EVGA. In the picture you showed me with the red scheme, it looks like that res fits nicely behind/beside those gpus. I really don't know much about reservoirs so you will have to excuse my incompetence there.
Again, I strongly advise against the SC line... The EVGA Classified, great card .... EVGA SC ? again, why pay extra for a stock / reference design with a decent air cooler that you are going to remove.
The card that impressed us the most, however, was the ASUS GTX780-DC2OC-3GD5. The new cooler works like charm, and its performance is clearly reflected by the test results. The card also manages to stay very quiet and offers the best overclocking potential thanks to the new cooler. ASUS earns the Gold Award for its card.
I'd rank the factory overclocked 780 cards from the "Big 4" as follows Asus DCII, MSI N gaming Series, Gigabyte Windforce and EVGA SC last. The specialty cards .... EVGA Classified and MSI Lightning are the premium cards but won't fit in the Enthoo.
As for the fit .... a 60mm diameter res (i.e. EK Res-3) mounted on the Enthoo res bracket in pre-drilled holes, as I recall, leaves about 2-3mm of space between res and edge of card. In SLI, in MoBos which use the No. 2 and No. 5 slots (i.e. The Maximus VI Formula), the lower card will hit the res bracket if ....
a) The card is more than 10.5" long
b) You use any of the longer EQ water blocks
EK makes 3 "full cover" water blocks
-Acetal one is 10.5" long
-Plexi one with the circles on it is 10.5" long
-"Clean" Plexi one (no circles) is about 9.5" long.
The res bracket, after you remove the plastic cover has a cut out..... it's thinner in the middle than top and bottom. Where the bracket transitions from the thinner to the wider portion, the water block will hit the bracket. Using my auspicious industry credentials ....
.... I manged to get a pre-release 780 Ti which was 10.5" long. You can see in the pics below how it hits the bracket
Here's an actual 780 installed. In this pic you can see the PCB extending over the slanted part of the res bracket. If the block ran full length underneath that PCB (it stops about an inch short), installation of the 2nd card would have been impossible with the res bracket in place.
On the topic of having a UT60 in the top.. eh. I don't know of really anything (off the top of my head) that would be blocked at the top of the board. Even doing push/pull, I can't really think of it getting in the way of anything I'd be using. And sorta related to this, I heard using the on-board watercooling "ports" on the Formula is a bad idea. That it doesn't help temperatures, it's pointless to cool your motherboard by liquid cooling means, and that it even restricts your flow.
I'll simply say I disagree completely with what you read about the MoBo block. While I might question whether it's worth $100 to replace it with the EK model, to my mind, if it's alreday there and paid for, I can fathom no reason not to take advantage of it.
When I started the build, it was only the 8 pin EPS cable and MPCIE combo card access that concerned me .... see ModZoo review also on this topic ..... but there were other things I didn't think of immediately that later caused concern. In summary:
1. The 60mm rad in P/P will block access to the MPCIE combo card. If you install it and never need access, no problem.... but if you do, will have to remove at least the fans.
2. The 60mm rad in P/P will block access to the 8 pin EPS cable....If you have pre-sleeved your cable and never need to access it, no problem.... but if you wanna get it built and then come back later w/ a sleeved cable, again, at least fans gotta go.
3. The 60mm rad in P/P will make getting the MoBo block tube in a bit more difficult. As far as not using it, the same argument can be used for your GFX card waterblocks..... kinda pointless when ya OCs are controlled by voltage and not temperatures. With a custom VRM as ya get with the Asus, Gigabyte and MSI factory OCd cards, you can and will get similar performance with air cooling (I have). When you selected ya GFX card block, you picked one that covers the GFX card VRM no ?
I have seen this argument made, most by people speculating what would happen "if" they connected the block and "if" they even had the MoBo. And it does help temperatures very much....right now mine's at 24C .... the three VRMs are at 22, 25 and 27C. Under stress testing, they climb into the low 30s. If you actually look at the water block cross section you can see quite clearly that the flow path is about the same area as an equivalent section of tubing.....no significant restriction whatsoever....I have about 1.75 gpm running thru my loop under normal operation....2.25 if I kick pump up to full speed. The only thing I don't see worthwhile cooling is DDR3-RAM, and that's cause I don't bother trying to go over rated speeds.....or push DRAM voltage up to 1.9 / 2.0 levels.
4. The 60mm rad in P/P completely blocks access to the voltage monitoring points.
5. The 60mm rad in P/P will block view if the MemOK LED, thereby eliminating a useful diagnostic tool.
6. The 60mm rad in P/P will block the view of the diagnostic LCD display, again eliminating use of a critically important diagnostic tool.
7. The 60mm rad in P/P will, if ya gonna use a 250mm res and want to be able to bleed it with a valve on the multiport top, the BP valve will hit the fan.
8. The 60mm rad in P/P will eliminate use of the top 5.25 bay which w/ a 45mm rad allows ya to fit a fan controller in there.
The 1st four I could live with if I didn't know I would shortly need access to those areas for planned mods not far down the road. The other four were deal killers as giving these up brought me nothing in return..... In other words, such a consideration should depend on what ya get versus what ya giving up.... I mean if I bend at the waist across the desk and lay my head sideways at desk level I could still see the diagnostic LCD but is that effort worth it for what I get in return ? I certainly might have considered a 60mm rad if it gave me something.
But I normally run at 450 rpm .... 850 rpm under stress testing and, in this rpm range, thinner rads actually outperform thicker rads. At 850 rpm, the UT60 and XT45 produce the exact same amount of cooling (156 watts each for the 360 based upon Martins published test data (projected 212 watts each for the 420). In fact, it's only at 1,000 rpm and above that the ST30 (181 watts ) loses its performance advantage over the XT45 (181 watts) and UT60 (183 watts).
One last thing I just thought of: Has anyone had experience with the sound on the Formula? It's suppose to be good. Like really good. Supporting 600 ohms and lots of other things. I'm asking because my plan is to get a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990's and if I have to, get something like the Objective 2. A little off topic though.
Sound is great....it's the equivalent of the $90 Xonar DX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132006Edited by JackNaylorPE - 2/18/14 at 12:23pm