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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 327

post #3261 of 18869
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADragg View Post


This, plus case filters really aren't all that great at filtering air. They are just mesh filters that will catch any major debris, like pet hair, as well as a good amount of the bulk of dust, but anyone who has had the Enthoo for a while will know that you'll still get plenty of dust inside the case, especially without decent positive pressure (which really takes all fans as intakes and maybe one exhaust in the rear with the Enthoo, because the back panel is so open that lots of intake is needed for a bit of positive pressure). It's usually more of a fine powered dust, but plenty of that exists and it will coat your case either way. It's just about trying to minimize it and keep as much air coming in and flowing right back out with a quickness so it doesn't get to settle.

Filters do create extra fan noise to some extent and they don't filter that well (again, as they're just mesh, not like paper furnace filters or something like that because that would be too restrictive). I still prefer having them, but that's why Caselabs, for instance, doesn't include filters at all. So you can either get the fitted filters like Demci's if you want, and decide for yourself if the amount of filtering is worth it, or if you just want to dust out your case regularly. A lot of people choose to go filterless to get better air flow and a little less noise, and they just blow the case out more and/or clean it with a DataVac.

Anyway, the idea of all or almost all fans as intakes isn't just to help minimize dust. I just think it's the most effective way of cooling. Most cases could have a huge amount of high speed fans intaking before there would finally be so much intake that it wasn't able to escape out the back fast enough and thus active exhaust would be needed. For the record, Im no expert on any of this and I could be wrong, but these are just my impressions based on what I've read and what makes sense to me, etc. It seems to me that intaking as much air as possible is only naturally going to bring the case temp as close as possible to ambient temps and keep any passively cooled components cooler. It also seems to make all of those intake fans work as exhaust too, because the positive pressure helps evacuate air and give as much passive exhaust as needed. Just seems to make better use of whatever number of fans you have and it happens to help minimize dust, too.

I find the logic contradictory ..... if you are using the same filters on the fan inlets as the grate inlets, how could their ability to prevent dust be affected in any way shape or form ? Again, postive is much easier in that the case manufacturer takes care of most of it for you .... but it's not like any of us couldn't do a better job. The Antec Lanboy my wife uses now has no front cover and can't recall if it ever had a filter...... it does now..... took the fan out slid a section of pantyhose over it and screwed it back in..... now air is double filtered smile.gif ...... anyone know where I can get pantyhose in blue as it doesn't match the LED ?

I have a room with a fan blowing air in with a filter in front of it on my east wall.
I now reverse the fan to blow out and I put the same filter on the west wall.

I have the same cfm blowing in and out. The pulses of the fan blades as they rotate and now no longer applying cyclic pressure an inch away from the fan nor transmitting any vibrations to the filter.

But the point remains to be resolved..... the fixation on positive pressure at the expense of all else. How does any discussion about turning an exhaust fan into an intake fan wind up with a back and forth about whether positive case pressure is going to b better at a 9 instead of an 8 on scale of 1 to 10 .... and no where is it brought up whether a filter will be added in front of the new intake fan ?
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911 Carrera
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post #3262 of 18869
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I find the logic contradictory ..... if you are using the same filters on the fan inlets as the grate inlets, how could their ability to prevent dust be affected in any way shape or form ? Again, postive is much easier in that the case manufacturer takes care of most of it for you .... but it's not like any of us couldn't do a better job. The Antec Lanboy my wife uses now has no front cover and can't recall if it ever had a filter...... it does now..... took the fan out slid a section of pantyhose over it and screwed it back in..... now air is double filtered smile.gif ...... anyone know where I can get pantyhose in blue as it doesn't match the LED ?

I have a room with a fan blowing air in with a filter in front of it on my east wall.
I now reverse the fan to blow out and I put the same filter on the west wall.

I have the same cfm blowing in and out. The pulses of the fan blades as they rotate and now no longer applying cyclic pressure an inch away from the fan nor transmitting any vibrations to the filter.

But the point remains to be resolved..... the fixation on positive pressure at the expense of all else. How does any discussion about turning an exhaust fan into an intake fan wind up with a back and forth about whether positive case pressure is going to b better at a 9 instead of an 8 on scale of 1 to 10 .... and no where is it brought up whether a filter will be added in front of the new intake fan ?

Yeah I don't know. I have a Silverstone dust filter on my rear fan because it's intaking but I only have it in that configuration because I like the way the Eloop looks when it faces that direction. As for dust build up that's not really a concern of mine since I clean the rig regularly and am always swapping parts or changing things. My build is primarily for looks even if that is a bit shallow. The added performance is just a bonus since I'm no extreme overclocker and I hate the sound of video card fans under load. I prefer a quiet rig.
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post #3263 of 18869
Positive air flow works. It has never said it stops all dust, but I read a test result that said it reduced dust by 30%, which I think is significant. Perhaps Silverstone explained it better than I can. http://silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_positive&area=usa
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post #3264 of 18869
I couldn't ask for a better reference than that Silverstone article as it perfectly illustrates my point:
Quote:
The diagrams show that chassis with positive air pressure can prevent dust from penetrating into the chassis by use of filters on intake fans and forcing air out of the chassis through unfiltered vents and gaps. On the other hand, a chassis with negative air pressure draws in air from unfiltered vents and gaps that even with fan filters placed on key intake fans, dust can penetrate into the chassis easily.

I don't see how one could walk away from that article after anything more than a cursory read thinking that it's positive pressure that is primarily responsible for keeping dust away. To my reading, the only reason that positive pressure is a consideration is, in their example, it forces all the intake air thru filtered openings. Silverstone is clearly saying is that dust gets in through openings that are unfiltered....whether or not a fan is there is immaterial, whether or not case pressure is negative or positive is material only in the sense that the intakes in their example are filtered.

For simplicities sake , let's take a budget case with four fan mounts ..... two in front (pre-installed) and two in back (optional), no other grilles....all case slot openings have solid blanks. Take the fans out and leave the filters where they are.

What will result in more dust inside the case ?

1. Mount the fans as intakes in the back with no filters (positive case pressure) air going out thru the old fan locations
2. Mount the fans as exhausts in the backs with no filters (negative case pressure) air coming thru the old filtered fan locations.

I'm going with negative in this example because all the air.... or 99.5% of it is filtered in No. 2 and none of it is filtered in No. 1

With respect to the Enthoo, given the known impact on fan efficiency from the fan grilles and filters on the Enthoo, as long as we maintain positive pressure, why worry about dust ? ..... just remove all the filters / grilles, use 18 intake fans and with all that positive pressure, dust couldn't in any way be a problem !

Again, not saying negative pressure is better than positive for keeping dust out, saying that the only reason positive is of value in any way, shape or form on, especially on a WC build, is when you have made sure all inlets are filtered.
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post #3265 of 18869
Also, in the for what it's worth department, with the increased threat of chemical attacks in the past 10 years or so, the US Navy implemented a policy of having positive air pressure in all Navy ships. The purpose was, in case of a chemical attack, the positive air pressure would tend to blow the chemicals out of the ship rather than sucking it in.
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post #3266 of 18869
Hi,

I'm a proud owner of this extremely well built and thought case. I purchased it last week and I'll be building my new machine in it. I'll go with an i7 4770K, a Hero board, 16GB of G.Skill 2400MHz ram and a 780 Ti (don't know which one right now, maybe the EVGA SC ACX or the Asus DirectCU II OC).

My main question here is: should I go the Air Cooling route or the Water Cooling one? I didn't want to spend that much money in a custom WC setup, knowing the 4770K won't probably let me go much high in clocks or voltages (I'm talking about passing through the 4.5-4.6GHz mark).

If I go with a top notch air cooler like the Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E, what kind of performance (temperatures) should I expect from this case? Is there anyone in here with the same setup as me who chose to install an air cooler on this case?

By the way, since you are talking about positive vs negative pressure inside the case, where should I place the pre-installed fans? Should I buy more fans like the 140 AF series from Corsair?

Shouldn't it be number of intake fans equals number of exhaust fans (like 3:3)?

Should I buy additional dust filters to prevent dust from entering through the open holes at the back of the case?

Cumps
Edited by Strider49 - 3/12/14 at 8:49pm
post #3267 of 18869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider49 View Post

Hi,

I'm a proud owner of this extremely well built and thought case. I purchased it last week and I'll be building my new machine in it. I'll go with an i7 4770K, a Hero board, 16GB of G.Skill 2400MHz ram and a 780 Ti (don't know which one right now, maybe the EVGA SC ACX or the Asus DirectCU II OC).

My main question here is: should I go the Air Cooling route or the Water Cooling one? I didn't want to spend that much money in a custom WC setup, knowing the 4770K won't probably let me go much high in clocks or voltages (I'm talking about passing through the 4.5-4.6GHz mark).

If I go with a top notch air cooler like the Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E, what kind of performance (temperatures) should I expect from this case? Is there anyone in here with the same setup as me who chose to install an air cooler on this case?

By the way, since you are talking about positive vs negative pressure inside the case, where should I place the pre-installed fans? Should I buy more fans like the 140 AF series from Corsair?

Shouldn't it be number of intake fans equals number of exhaust fans (like 3:3)?

Should I buy additional dust filters to prevent dust from entering through the open holes at the back of the case?

Cumps

If you don't want to spend a lot of money I recommend air cooling as water cooling can quickly add up to a lot of money depending on: what you want to cool, acrylic vs soft tubing, looks vs ultimate performance that kind of thing. This case has great air cooling and the included fans are excellent. Even at low rpm they move quite a bit of air and are quiet. The Corsair AF fans don't really compare in my opinion. You can really just chuck a rig in it without buying anything additional and be good to go whilst leaving the stock fan setup which is 3 intake and 2 exhaust.
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post #3268 of 18869
Build Log - Project Frostworks


Edited by CoopsTHC - 3/13/14 at 1:44am
post #3269 of 18869
Caseking.de updated their shipping estimate for white Primo, now it's 30.4 instead of previous 30.3. I don't understand how painting the case white can take so long, white one isn't even new revision as far as I know rolleyes.gif I'm so tired of waiting.
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post #3270 of 18869
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider49 View Post

Hi,

I'm a proud owner of this extremely well built and thought case. I purchased it last week and I'll be building my new machine in it. I'll go with an i7 4770K, a Hero board, 16GB of G.Skill 2400MHz ram and a 780 Ti (don't know which one right now, maybe the EVGA SC ACX or the Asus DirectCU II OC).

My main question here is: should I go the Air Cooling route or the Water Cooling one? I didn't want to spend that much money in a custom WC setup, knowing the 4770K won't probably let me go much high in clocks or voltages (I'm talking about passing through the 4.5-4.6GHz mark).

If I go with a top notch air cooler like the Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E, what kind of performance (temperatures) should I expect from this case? Is there anyone in here with the same setup as me who chose to install an air cooler on this case?

By the way, since you are talking about positive vs negative pressure inside the case, where should I place the pre-installed fans? Should I buy more fans like the 140 AF series from Corsair?

Shouldn't it be number of intake fans equals number of exhaust fans (like 3:3)?

Should I buy additional dust filters to prevent dust from entering through the open holes at the back of the case?

Cumps
Welcome to our world. biggrin.gif

H2O is very expensive. A couple of radiators, CPU & GPU blocks, pump, reservoir, fittings, tubing, etc. add up very fans to $500 or more.

I'm running a i7 980 & ASUS GTX580DCUII with no problems. Very cool and quiet. I monitor CPU and GPU intake air temps (see case cooling link in sig). They are same as room ambient. My EP sets on a caster base which might make a difference but I doubt it. Stock fans are all that's needed. Mov e back & top fans forward to move cool air down to CPU intake. Move bottom fan forward to better supply GPU. I added a couple and have 3x top intake, 2x front intake & 2x bottom intake. The included PWM fan hub controls them.

I didn't need them but got them as part of trade for castor base. No exhaust fans and 5 intakes means all the extra case venting is a exhausting air so no dust problems. Stock fans are better than AF140 fans. Corsair's' look nice but are not all that great.

Balancing airflow is about how much air is being push into and pulled out of case. Because of filters, grills, baffles, etc. the fans flow different amounts of air even though they are same fans... And with good fans (decent H2O & CFM ratings) exhaust fans are not as important.. unless needed to improve airflow toward where they exhaust.

Not having exhaust fans means air is always flowing out of case so no need of additional filters. wink.gif

Silver Arrow SB-E is coolest, but only because it has 2500rpm 130crm TY-143 fans (I expect IB-E Extreme to be same).. I've used the TY-143 fans on TC14PE with similar performance as Silver Arrow SB-E. The TY-143 fans are same noise level as other fans up to 1300rpm, but when running full speed are as loud as CLCs but with better temps.

With top air coolers choice is more about quality, fit, noise and looks than performance. Have used Silver Arrow, PH-TC14PE, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme, and Cryorig R1 Ultimate. All cool about the same. Just got Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme but have not used it yet.
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