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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 331

post #3301 of 18708
While still waiting for money to be available so I can continue with my build,I slowly started planning my WC loop and have some questions.My system will most probably include a 4670k and a 780.

Now,I'm thinking of going full out and having dual rads,so a 420 at the top (That's a done deal) . About the bootom....I still don't know.I was thinking 360 or 480,but that way I would lose the drive cages (Not that I care all that much but just sayin') and I would spend a crapload of money on fans.Normally,someone who is willing to spend big on a wc rig shouldn't care if they pay for a couple more fans,but I'm on a tight-ish budget (Meaning there will be just enough money for everything), So I came to consider using a 280 with Phanteks' excellent fans. Yeah,it doesn't look as good but I'll live with that I think.Thing is,is it worth it to go at least 360,if not 480? I suppose I'm already deep within the overkill zone with a 420 and a 280 for the CPU and a single GPU,but I do it for the looks as much as I do it for the performance,although I may be getting a secod GPU down the line.

Secondly,I'm concerned about the GPU.I really wanted to water cool a Classified and overclock the hell (and probably some of heaven) out of it, but that would be too expensive (560€ for the Classy and another 100-200€ for a water block) and I would be better off buying a 780ti and leaving it on air for that money.My other options are :

- A reference PCB model like the EVGA (For the warranty) for 440€
- A cheaper custom PCB model like the Asus DCUII for 450€
- Asus' Poseidon for 570€
- EVGA's Hydro Copper Classified for...too much to matter at this point

Normally, for 570€ I would go for the Poseidon and be done with it. It would save me money from not buying a water block and backplate,time from not having to replace anything with anything and I wouldn't void my warranty while replacing the stock cooler (Although I think EVGA honors their warranty even if the card has been tampered with). But Asus being Asus,they decided to use aluminum in the GPU block and they also leave the VRMs air-cooled. I'm not so concerned about the VRMs, as the Asus cooler does a decent job of cooling them,but having aluminum in my build,especially after reading all the horror stories posted online, pushes me away from the Poseidon. I know some say that anodized aluminum is fine, and I agree with them (I'm looking at you Jack! tongue.gif ), but I don't know whether I can trust Asus with that. Why they didn't go with a copper block is beyond me...

If I decide to go for something like the DCUII (Although I'm hesitant of going with Asus because of complaints about their warranties), do I need a special water block because of the custom PCB design or can I use any block for the 780? The reason I'm asking is because the selection of water-cooling components is next to non-existent, so I may have to order something from another country,which I try to avoid. And that's also the reason I hesitate about buying stuff from guys here on the forums. Shipping stuff to Greece,especially from the US, costs too much and sometimes Greek customs officials decide that exorbitant fees are in line with what one imports, so I'm kinda afraid to order anything from the US. Shipping stuff from within the EU is customs free, but it's damn expensive too. I guess the same question goes for the Classified though... Although I suspect that that would need a special water block, otherwise EVGA wouldn't offer a variant with a pre-applied water block.

Then there's the Hydro Coppers... At first I thought "Hell yeah! That's what I'm getting!". Then I looked at the price. The basic Hydro Copper (Not the Classified) 780 is on sale for about 770€ here in Greece. For that kind of money I could water cool a reference 780ti. In other countries it's not so bad,but still,they are expensive pieces of equipment. Despite all that, I'm still considering ordering one from somewhere else and paying the premium. The only counter-argument I can find if I have the money is that I don't know the resale status of these cards. I'm under the impression that water cooling gear isn't as easy to sell,especially if it's old-ish. That and the fact that I live in Greece and shipping stuff elsewhere, especially to the US (Most people who buy things from the forums are from the US), must be really expensive. That and the fact that I have never sold anything online,so I'm completely a noob to this, have scared me away from these things. A little help with that would definitely be much appreciated (PM me if you like).

Having said all that, I'm still considering building the basic water loop around the CPU (WIth the 420 up top) and then adding the GPU in it in a future upgrade. That would save me money and time now, but later I'd have to do a lot of work to mod my loop and get everything water cooled. Still,it's a viable alternative if I can' afford everything right now. Then there's always the chance I may not be able to afford a wc loop at all, but I'm trying to not think of that.

Thanks in advance guys!Any replies are much appreciated!

PS : I too think it's almost a blasphemy to own this case and leave it on air. It's like buying a Porsche only for commuting!
post #3302 of 18708
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostFaceKeller View Post

Hi All. Im interested in this airflow and dust topic too when it comes to the Primo.

I currently have three AF120s as intakes in the bottom of the case, pulling air up and through the case, i have another as an exhaust towards the top (rear) of the cause, near the two fans connected (as intakes) to my H105 RAD. I moved all the stock phanteks 140mm fans that arrived inside the case (apart from the front LED fans) to the top section and all three act as exhausts, meaning push pull on the rad.

Unfortunatley the front cover panel clips on the case arrived broken, I'm awaiting some more front clips from Phanteks, but at the moment that area is not sealed and is open to dust.

Im wondering if I should flip the bottom fans over to be exhausts, or if that will cause negative pressure as you say Doyll.

Fwiw, in my ~6 months with the Enthoo, I've found that the optimal config is to have every fan in top, front, and bottom as INTAKE and one fan in the back as exhaust. After 6 months with very minimal maintenance (basically just cleaning the filters) there's not a spec of dust in my system and temps are right where you want them to be with a high end custom wc build.

Positive pressure, always. The more intake, the better. The air WILL find a way to exhaust through every nook and cranny; the dust won't get in.

If your front panel grill is broken, go to Home Depot or Lowe's or whatever and get a $2 air conditioner foam filter and just tape it on there as a temporary fix until you get the grille panel back.
post #3303 of 18708
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnyc75 View Post

Fwiw, in my ~6 months with the Enthoo, I've found that the optimal config is to have every fan in top, front, and bottom as INTAKE and one fan in the back as exhaust. After 6 months with very minimal maintenance (basically just cleaning the filters) there's not a spec of dust in my system and temps are right where you want them to be with a high end custom wc build.

Positive pressure, always. The more intake, the better. The air WILL find a way to exhaust through every nook and cranny; the dust won't get in.

If your front panel grill is broken, go to Home Depot or Lowe's or whatever and get a $2 air conditioner foam filter and just tape it on there as a temporary fix until you get the grille panel back.


Exactly my conclusion mate, this is the only forum where people have got the same way of thinking with the EP, they always just say heat rises so have the bottom as intake and roof as exhaust. I was getting loads of negative feedback from the other forum, up until I showed them that by doing it my / your way I actually dropped the temps by about 4 degrees. As as soon as I posted proof the thread died. All the haters asking for proof, got what they wanted, and didn't reply.


If you drop Phanteks an email they will send you some new clips for the front panel. I'm on my 2nd set now, well 3rd I'm waiting for the rev 2 clips now, there customer service is great drop the a message you'll get a reply the next, if not the same day. I've also had the fan hub, and front led strip fail, and they are also sending them on to me too.
post #3304 of 18708
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulyoung View Post


I have no idea mate, to be honest, I don't take any notice of the GPU's when running OCCT, all I can tell you is the maximum temp whilst it was running was 30 degrees, so at a guess no they didn't. I'll do another run in the AM, and get back to you on that one mate.

With the GPU adding say 300 watts to the CPUs 140, and having two of them, the GPU load is much bigger than the CPU..... OCCT's PSU test put a strain on both but it's been know to kill less than stellar PSUs ..... but unfortunately, it detects nVidia's drivers detect OCCT and throttle the card..... was wondering about what AMD does.



Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I'm betting the front and bottom intake grill area, grill density are restricitng 3-40% more than back vents. Top has area but remember how much improvement you had removing the top grill?
Sorry Jack , but I disagree about exhaust fans in the attic. Reason is they pull heated air from GPU up around CPU and motherboard components instead of exhausting it out the back.

Shoulda included what I left unsaid here given the "filters on all inlets / no filters on outlets" mantra stated in previous posts. ...... if ya using the top fans as exhaust,I shuda noted that filters shud be removed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

  • Using forward vent area in top for intakes moves cool air down to CPU and motherboard, than out the back Front and forward bottom intakes move cool air to GPU than out the back. .
  • Back of EP has plenty of vent area and any excess will find it's way out side or back top and bottom vent area. This givs EP very good front to back airflow and supplying plenty of ambient temperature air to components.
  • I find leaving the I/O cover out usually improves motherboard component temps too. Better airflow close to motherboard.

To my mind this is in question ..... conventional wisdom says air in front and bottom and air on the top and back..... I see ya point but case manufacturer's have decided to go the other way ..... buy a case with fans up top and they are always installed blowing out. I'm kinda betwixt and between on the subject

- As exhaust fans would have the filter removed, that makes them a helluva lot more effective at moving air than as intake fans up top..... like getting a extra fan based upon your % estimate.
- Three fans up top blowing in, two in front blowing in, two on side blowing in, two on bottom blowing in ..... 9 fans is a lot even for the Enthoo's generous rear grille area. 9 in vs 1 out leaves 8 x 140mm for the grilles.....
- I really wouldn't want fresh air from the front intakes going right out the bottom grille.
- The two side grilles are "spoken for" with twin fan intakes.
- If as you say air will be forced out the side panel vents, what effect will the higher interior case pressure have on the PSU intake grille functionality ? With all that air looking for an exit, the fresh air intake will will be inhibited and cooling air to the PSU at least partially replaced by pre-heated case air. Of course a foam gasket could be built to eliminate that.
-You do get a slight boost in not fighting convection, but more importantly, you have the top and bottom air velocities "resisting" each other, and creating dead zones of low velocity. This is where those fan mounts on the interior side of the HD cages come in handy. In my WC build, I have no hot / dead spots according to the Infrared thermometer but that is helped by those extra fan in 5.25" bays.
-CPU Air cooler can be oriented upward which does a good job of aiding the cooling in area around MOFSETS and VRMs
-Can put a fan in 5.25 bays and 3.5 bays (using existing mounts) to keep air stirred up around MoBo if that's a concern.
[/LIST]

In a similar vein, I argued with myself on the two side fans....Still not sure what way will work best and, but like the bigger question above, only way to know would be to run some tests.....lotta good reasons supporting either alternative.

-use them as ins....it's more load that must go out the rear....fifteen 140s in and just 1 out ?
-use them as outs .... likely short circuiting with front fans


I'm kinda chuckling at my involvement in this discussion when I haven't had the filters in or side panels on in months smile.gif

Seen a dust speckle or 3 on top backplate, nothing in rads or anywhere else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Wake up mate! rolleyes.gif
You got that backwards. biggrin.gif
More exhaust than intake is negative pressure and draws air (dust) in through every opening in case. tongue.gif

Well it was late .... duh ..... I go back and fix.....I wrote the sentence going the other way and said let me edit that and got it backwards .... obviously that contradicts everything I had said above it smile.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostFaceKeller View Post

Hi All. Im interested in this airflow and dust topic too when it comes to the Primo.

I currently have three AF120s as intakes in the bottom of the case, pulling air up and through the case, i have another as an exhaust towards the top (rear) of the cause, near the two fans connected (as intakes) to my H105 RAD. I moved all the stock phanteks 140mm fans that arrived inside the case (apart from the front LED fans) to the top section and all three act as exhausts, meaning push pull on the rad.

Unfortunatley the front cover panel clips on the case arrived broken, I'm awaiting some more front clips from Phanteks, but at the moment that area is not sealed and is open to dust.

Im wondering if I should flip the bottom fans over to be exhausts, or if that will cause negative pressure as you say Doyll.

OK, let's summarize and if I got this right .....

(3) 120s in at bottom
(1) 120 rear exhaust
(2) 120s intakes on rad
Net = (5) in (1) out = 4 +

(2) 240s in
(3) 140s out

Net = (2) in (3) Out = 1 -

The 4+ 120s are gonna outweigh the 1- on the 140's so you should be fine..... but the problem as I see it is where is ya H105 mounted that it has access to two fan ports ?.....
Quote:
then in the roof of the case, I have the 105 mounted as per normal (IE with the rad fans mounted underneath it as intakes) then in the roof cavity I have the three phanteks fans acting as exhausts.

And there's my answer ....

You have two fans pulling air into the case below thr radiator and three fans above the radiator puling air in the opposite direction ???? They are fighting each other so the rad is getting very poor cooling.
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 3/14/14 at 9:29am
911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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post #3305 of 18708
Hi guys,
enthoo primo's manual talks about a limit of 70mm thickness max for 480 top radiator.

Can i install a 80mm radiator if i don't plan to use first 5.25 bay? Or there's another physical limit?
post #3306 of 18708
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoore View Post

Hi guys,
enthoo primo's manual talks about a limit of 70mm thickness max for 480 top radiator.

Can i install a 80mm radiator if i don't plan to use first 5.25 bay? Or there's another physical limit?

That depends on your motherboard. You may or may not be able to use a monsta at the top,but it's very likely that you will run in clearance issues with the mobo heatsink, the CPU power connectors etc. If you don't already have the monsta, I'd go for something else. Probably a 420 or a 360 up top. The monsta fits nicely on the bottom.
post #3307 of 18708
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolis626 View Post

That depends on your motherboard. You may or may not be able to use a monsta at the top,but it's very likely that you will run in clearance issues with the mobo heatsink, the CPU power connectors etc. If you don't already have the monsta, I'd go for something else. Probably a 420 or a 360 up top. The monsta fits nicely on the bottom.

Thx.
So, no problem with the EP?

I am not going to buy a Monsta for the top ( probably a Xspc rx480 v3, 56mm thick+25mm fan) but i'd like to know about case limits and i needed an explanation about pdf wording
post #3308 of 18708
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

  • Using forward vent area in top for intakes moves cool air down to CPU and motherboard, than out the back Front and forward bottom intakes move cool air to GPU than out the back. .
  • Back of EP has plenty of vent area and any excess will find it's way out side or back top and bottom vent area. This givs EP very good front to back airflow and supplying plenty of ambient temperature air to components.
  • I find leaving the I/O cover out usually improves motherboard component temps too. Better airflow close to motherboard.
To my mind this is in question ..... conventional wisdom says air in front and bottom and air on the top and back..... I see ya point but case manufacturer's have decided to go the other way ..... buy a case with fans up top and they are always installed blowing out. I'm kinda betwixt and between on the subject.
I think "wisdom" has little if anything to do with it. It has more to do with conventional design, optical bay placement, conventional motherboard design with CPU near top, old low power demand GPUs, PSU being mounted in back top pul;ling air from inside, etc. It's what customer was buying and case builders have no desire to rock the boat too much.. until recently. Oh sure, they "designed" fancy gamer cases but that's more about the look that sells it than performance.

Now we have GPUs making 2 to 3 times as much heat as CPU, often 2 or 3 in a take making 6 to 9 times the heat CPU does. we don't what that heat going into CPU cooler.. at least I don't. tongue.gif Obviously an intake in the fornt of case feeding air directly to CPU cooler would be ideal, but that isn't practical without modifications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

- As exhaust fans would have the filter removed, that makes them a helluva lot more effective at moving air than as intake fans up top..... like getting a extra fan based upon your % estimate.
- Three fans up top blowing in, two in front blowing in, two on side blowing in, two on bottom blowing in ..... 9 fans is a lot even for the Enthoo's generous rear grille area. 9 in vs 1 out leaves 8 x 140mm for the grilles.....
- I really wouldn't want fresh air from the front intakes going right out the bottom grille.
- The two side grilles are "spoken for" with twin fan intakes.
- If as you say air will be forced out the side panel vents, what effect will the higher interior case pressure have on the PSU intake grille functionality ? With all that air looking for an exit, the fresh air intake will will be inhibited and cooling air to the PSU at least partially replaced by pre-heated case air. Of course a foam gasket could be built to eliminate that.
-You do get a slight boost in not fighting convection, but more importantly, you have the top and bottom air velocities "resisting" each other, and creating dead zones of low velocity. This is where those fan mounts on the interior side of the HD cages come in handy. In my WC build, I have no hot / dead spots according to the Infrared thermometer but that is helped by those extra fan in 5.25" bays.
-CPU Air cooler can be oriented upward which does a good job of aiding the cooling in area around MOFSETS and VRMs
-Can put a fan in 5.25 bays and 3.5 bays (using existing mounts) to keep air stirred up around MoBo if that's a concern.
[/LIST]

In a similar vein, I argued with myself on the two side fans....Still not sure what way will work best and, but like the bigger question above, only way to know would be to run some tests.....lotta good reasons supporting either alternative.

-use them as ins....it's more load that must go out the rear....fifteen 140s in and just 1 out ?
-use them as outs .... likely short circuiting with front fans.
My suggestions above were for air cooled use, not H2O. For H20 maybe top and bottom in with front and back out might be best. )

I was not suggesting all of top, side, front and bottom be filled with intake fans.
I said
"Using forward vent area in top for intakes moves cool air down to CPU and motherboard, than out the back Front and forward bottom intakes move cool air to GPU than out the back. . "
That is:
  • 1 or 2 top intakes
  • 2 front intakes
  • 1 or 2 bottom intakes.
As bottom is only built to accommodate 2x 140mm fans one intake fan in the front of the 2 will flow air onto GPU
Front has 2x 140mm intakes.
2x in the top middle / front area for CPU.

The combination of 5.25 bay in top and front fans tends to turn the airflow toward the back. Only area of possible "dead zone" is at middle of case / front of motherboard above GPU.. which should not be a problem.

And with so much of the back being open these F140SP fans can easily push the air to back of case. and out.
post #3309 of 18708
Hey guys, I need a little help. I need to make a fill port on my case. I have a EK 420 coolstream rad.This rad has two top ports and two bottom. I'm using the top ports for my temperature plug and the other
for the fill port. So what I wanted to know is where a good place to put the fill port. I've got a few ideas but I would like to hear from you guys and see that you done for a fill port.
I've got a quick disconnect for the bottom. So I'm good on that one. What I thought I might do was make a bracket and put it in the back side of the case. Let me know what you think.
post #3310 of 18708
]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider49 View Post

Thanks for your insight!

I'm in Portugal and here I can get the MSI GD65 for about 171€ and the Hero for 179€. Not really much of a difference. When I think of Asus ROG boards, I see top of the line performance, many useful features, great components. I'm not a fan boy though, I never had a single ROG product. The advertised military components on MSI boards and VGAs are just a gimmick or are they really better than what one can find on other brands products?

Well I will give ya two more reasons ....

1. Asus has a BIOS issue at the moment that is affecting their RoG 1150 boards. BIOS settings that gave ya stable OC's under BIOS 0804, are no longer stable under 09xx, 10xx (both of which have been pulled, as well as 11xx, 12xx and 13xx. I'm hoping it gets fixed with 14xx but if ya look at the Hero Owners Club thread as wella s RoG forums many have rolled back to 0804, which unfortunately means Asus will refuse to provide tech support services unless ya load latest BIOS.

2. You get to watch this video repeatedly and wife / GF can't complain as it's educational

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvNnv7nh2Es
Quote:
I can't seem to find those Mushkin Redlines here in Portugal. I didn't even know about the existence of that brand. Does that somewhat lower last timing number really make a big difference

Geez....kids today smile.gif

Back in the day ..... Mushkin was on the tip of the tongue of every puter enthusiast and PC retailers would actually list "Mushkin Memory" in the PC ads as a selling point. Mushkin topped both Tomshardware and Anadech's most recent roundup recommendations but for the last 15 or so years Mushkin has rested on its laurels so to speak and forgone advertising and promotion figuring they didn't need it. Mushkin has been my 1st choice for almost 20 years both for performance and compatibility reasons as well as support. Back in the day, enthusiasts looked at GSkill as the "Walmart" brand as their marketing approach was "be the cheapest" but they have used their capital from the market share they gained with that approach to produce some excellent products today. But two issues I have had with Gskill (and even Corsair to a smaller extent) over the years .... is that at some point in the production run, they change module suppliers. Corsair just did this with the vengeance pro series....as lines improve, yields of higher spec memory improve and while in early production runs, they'd spend the premium to get Hynix memory, once yields on the lesser brands improved they do a swictheroo.

The other one....and this could be just luck of the draw ..... is that I have always had the best luck doing RAM upgrades with Mushkin and Corsair even when mixing brands. On Gskill, I failed 3 outta 4 times matching them with older GSills. My assumption is using same spec , same speed, same timings RAM isn't all that compatible when the RAM modules have been obtained from different module suppliers.
Quote:
So, are you saying the Asus 780 Ti DirectCU II OC has a custom PCB and better VRM? Didn't know about that one too... smile.gif I must state I haven't made up my mind yet regarding the GPU issue, they are all so close to each other, I think. All I know is that I want the best 780 Ti for the money, having a 3 year limited warranty in my country, covering both materials and workmanship. At first, I considered the MSI Gaming (9.9 on TPU review, military class components... smile.gif), but then I realised MSI only offers a 2 year warranty in Portugal.
Yesterday, I saw a discount on the Lightning version of the R9 290X in a UK store and then my doubts grew even bigger. According to Guru, it can almost equal and even surpass in some instances the "basic" non-reference design 780 Ti's like the EVGA SC ACX, costing slightly less.

Yes, it does.....this has been a consistent failure with the SC series at least since the 5xx series..... I believe they are trying to shed this black mark on their resume in that the 760 used a different brand VRM so they could say "it's not reference" but it has the same number of phases and is the same size as the reference one so what's the point. Form a performance standpoint they are by no means close to one another......Below the Asus finished 1st, MSI 2nd, EVGA last

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/4639/10/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-asus-vs-evga-vs-inno3d-vs-msi-conclusion


As for the various differences between different models, in order of performance

780 Ti Overclocked
780 Ti
780 Overclocked
290X Overclocked
290x
780

While the 290x is faster than the 780 outta the box in 'ultra mode", it doesn't have that much headroom because it is so aggressively overclocked at the factory..... but when overclocked "to the wall" the 780 OC wins over the 290xOC ....
Quote:
There's also new "contenders": Asus Matrix Platinum 780 Ti and R9 290X... Should I wait to see how these'll come up?

Given your air / water dilemma, I'd take a good hard look at the Asus 780 Posiedon

Yeah, I think I'll go with a top air cooler for now. In the future I may think about replacing it with a custom WC setup though, as this case really shines in that department. I even considered buying the Swiftech H320, but it's been a P.I.T.A. to find it in stock in portuguese or european stores. So, do you recommend the Phanteks PH-TC14-PE air cooler? I can get it for about 90€; the Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme costs about 10-15€ less and it has those red or orange fans that really go up with the red tone on the Hero and the GSkills. Do you think the Phanteks is worth the extra cost? What's my the best option, performance and silence wise? My goal is trying to reach 4.4 or 4.5GHz stable, more if I am lucky.

I soured the the Arrow only because it's hard to get here and shipping costs are extreme..... so I understand your dilemma. The Phanteks is the only one I know that gives you a choice of colors. For RoG Builds, I like these:

Black http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709011
White http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709001
Red - newegg outat stock


Quote:
As to the fans issue, I was thinking about passing the fan on the top to the bottom as intake and place 3 other fans on the top as exhaust, therefore equalising numbers of intake and exhaust fans. If you say that it shouldn't be needed, then I will maintain the stock fans in their places. Perhaps it is better to do some temperature tests before getting something else. If I still want to add those 3 extra fans after that, some Phanteks SP140s it will be.

I put 3 of these on the top, matching the front fan motif (LED)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709024

More is always better ..... my thought is one 140mm case fan for every 75 watts or so as a minimum .

1150 CPU = 140 watts OC'd = 2 fans
MoBo = 40 watts = 1/2 fan
RAM, DVD, HDs, etc = 40 watts = 1/2 fan
Hi end GPU = 300 watts OC'd = 4 fans

So I'd look at 7 fans .... 2 in front / 2 on bottom as in .... rear and 2 top as exhaust.....when ya add a 2nd GPU, I'd add two on the side panel in and 1 more on the top.to give ya +2 on intake As always do a smoke test ..... if ya have nothing else, light a match or a ciggie and hold near ya grilles and see which way air / blows the flame / smoke
Quote:
So, should I maintain a positive pressure inside the case to be covered on the dust front? If I put all the fans as intake, as some of you say, won't the fans blow air and spread dust all over the case? My intuition says the following: place intake fans on the bottom and front, where the air is cooler, and blow out the (hot) air through the upper rear and top sites. It doesn't make much sense to me to pull cooler air into the case through the rear or top fan mounts, which will get into contact with the hotter air in that region, perhaps having some undesired effects.

Yes, positive pressure is always going to be the easiest route (case comes w/ filters on inlets).....and has other advantages with air cooling (GFX card exhaust air doesn't get sucked back in). If using top as exhaust, ya may wanna remove the fine filter on the top grille. All fans as intake means overcoming the air restriction on the filters on every fan..... having exhaust fans operating without filters means that fan's SP can help overcome the resistance of the filter on a corresponding intake fan. And yes, your logic is "textbook" and why most case manufacturer's build their cases that way at the factory. But remember two intakes and two exhaust is not equal. So while the intake fans w/o exhaust fans may have their flow significantly inhibited by inlet filters, the exhaust fans do help in overcoming it.
Quote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong. smile.gif

That's ya wife's job smile.gif






Quote:
Originally Posted by tolis626 View Post

Now,I'm thinking of going full out and having dual rads,so a 420 at the top (That's a done deal) . About the bootom....I still don't know.I was thinking 360 or 480,but that way I would lose the drive cages (Not that I care all that much but just sayin') and I would spend a crapload of money on fans.Normally,someone who is willing to spend big on a wc rig shouldn't care if they pay for a couple more fans,but I'm on a tight-ish budget (Meaning there will be just enough money for everything), So I came to consider using a 280 with Phanteks' excellent fans. Yeah,it doesn't look as good but I'll live with that I think.Thing is,is it worth it to go at least 360,if not 480? I suppose I'm already deep within the overkill zone with a 420 and a 280 for the CPU and a single GPU,but I do it for the looks as much as I do it for the performance,although I may be getting a secod GPU down the line.

A 420 + 280 will cool a 4770k @ 4.6 GHz and twin 780s w/ 25% OC with a Delta T of 8.4C with fans at 1200 rpm, filters removed.....at 850 rpm max, I have hit 12.8 C with filters in and that's under torture test stress testing. Personally I like the look and it allows for a optimum pump setup with the pump under the top HD cage.

Quote:
My other options are :

- A reference PCB model like the EVGA (For the warranty) for 440€
- A cheaper custom PCB model like the Asus DCUII for 450€
- Asus' Poseidon for 570€
- EVGA's Hydro Copper Classified for...too much to matter at this point

The DCII is the top factory OCd card aside from the Lightning and Classified. The Hydrocopper has extremely poor cooling.

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/4639/10/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-asus-vs-evga-vs-inno3d-vs-msi-conclusion
Quote:
The card that impressed us the most, however, was the ASUS GTX780-DC2OC-3GD5. The new cooler works like charm, and its performance is clearly reflected by the test results. The card also manages to stay very quiet and offers the best overclocking potential thanks to the new cooler. ASUS earns the Gold Award for its card...... The EVGA ACX Superclocked also isn't a bad card. The only problem is that about the same amount of money will net you the ASUS card, a card which is superior in terms of cooling, noise and overclocking potential.
Quote:
Normally, for 570€ I would go for the Poseidon and be done with it. It would save me money from not buying a water block and backplate,time from not having to replace anything with anything and I wouldn't void my warranty while replacing the stock cooler (Although I think EVGA honors their warranty even if the card has been tampered with). But Asus being Asus,they decided to use aluminum in the GPU block and they also leave the VRMs air-cooled. I'm not so concerned about the VRMs, as the Asus cooler does a decent job of cooling them,but having aluminum in my build,especially after reading all the horror stories posted online, pushes me away from the Poseidon. I know some say that anodized aluminum is fine, and I agree with them (I'm looking at you Jack! tongue.gif ), but I don't know whether I can trust Asus with that. Why they didn't go with a copper block is beyond me...

1. Copper is more expensive
2. Most GPU blocks are nickel plated copper for aesthetic purposes.
3. Copper is heavier ..... dunno if ya ever looked at my pic in siggie but I needed a post to hold up the right end of my GFX cards to keep them from sagging and dragging on my acrylic tubes.
4. The block is covered by the warranty so if it fails ....

I have never had issue with Asus and warranty.... on the enthusiasts MoBos the warranty provides for them shipping you a replacement BEFORE you send back the broken one.

If I decide to go for something like the DCUII (Although I'm hesitant of going with Asus because of complaints about their warranties), do I need a special water block because of the custom PCB design or can I use any block for the 780? The reason I'm asking is.....

It's a custom block and in the Enthoo you want the short one (Note many factory OC'd cards like the Classy and Lightning will not fit in the Enthoo with the reservoir bracket in place). This one fits the Asus DCII and fits in the Enthoo with res bracket in place

GPU Water Block - EK ASUS GeForce 780 GTX DCII VGA Liquid Cooling Block - Nickel (EK-FC780 GTX DCII – Nickel)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21270/ex-blc-1529/EK_ASUS_GeForce_780_GTX_DCII_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Nickel_EK-FC780_GTX_DCII_-_Nickel.html?tl=c613s1928b133

GPU Water Block Backplate - EK ASUS GeForce 780 GTX DCII VGA Liquid Cooling RAM Backplate - Black CSQ (EK-FC780 GTX DCII Backplate - Black)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21273/ex-blc-1532/EK_ASUS_GeForce_780_GTX_DCII_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_RAM_Backplate_-_Black_CSQ_EK-FC780_GTX_DCII_Backplate_-_Black.html?tl=c613s1928b133
Quote:
Then there's the Hydro Coppers... At first I thought "Hell yeah! That's what I'm getting!". Then I looked at the price. The basic Hydro Copper (Not the Classified) 780 is on sale for about 770€ here in Greece. For that kind of money I could water cool a reference 780ti. In other countries it's not so bad,but still,they are expensive pieces of equipment. Despite all that, I'm still considering ordering one .....

Check the xtremerigs review on youtube for the Titan / 780 blocks .... th EVGA / EK block did very poorly in the tests



Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnyc75 View Post

If your front panel grill is broken, go to Home Depot or Lowe's or whatever and get a $2 air conditioner foam filter and just tape it on there as a temporary fix until you get the grille panel back.

Or steal and cut up pair of wifie's pantyhose smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulyoung View Post

Exactly my conclusion mate, this is the only forum where people have got the same way of thinking with the EP, they always just say heat rises so have the bottom as intake and roof as exhaust. I was getting loads of negative feedback from the other forum, up until I showed them that by doing it my / your way I actually dropped the temps by about 4 degrees. As as soon as I posted proof the thread died. All the haters asking for proof, got what they wanted, and didn't reply.

You will find threads here making the same argument .... my guess is that they see all the published articles talking about front and bottom in, rear and top out and every case manufacturer shipping cases this way that it doesn't register that the concept doesn't account for the dynamics of water cooling.....

For some reason, the 22C in thru the rad is better than 27C thru the rad doesn't sway the thought.

same with the positive pressure article.... the focus on the positive pressure and it fails to register that positive pressure works if when all inlets are filtered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoore View Post

Hi guys,
enthoo primo's manual talks about a limit of 70mm thickness max for 480 top radiator.

Can i install a 80mm radiator if i don't plan to use first 5.25 bay? Or there's another physical limit?

Yes, your MoBo..... checked what might be blocked via visual or physical access .... just a few paged pack, someone showed a Monsta in there.....just missed his RAM. But in my case, it blocked access to the MPCIE thingie, made access to the MoBo WB difficult blocked the voltage monitoring access points, blocked the EPS cable access and blocked vidial access tot he LCD diagnostic panel. You may or may not care about those things but best to make a knowledgeable decision before the bron truck brings it to ya door.

Edited by JackNaylorPE - 3/14/14 at 11:13am
911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
  hide details  
Reply
911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
  hide details  
Reply
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