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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 35

post #341 of 18678
I believe Jesse's writing that a 420 will fit on the bottom is simply an error. I am certain a 420 will not fit on the bottom without serious modification to the case.

If you just watch the first video Jesse made with Bill from Monstermawds you can see that a 420 will not fit without cutting away the bottom of the panel with the 'Phanteks' plate attached to it. They even try to set a 420 rad down there, but they can't except tilted up at a serious angle. Jesse even says "This is a 420. Maybe we can test with this [alphacool 420], just to get an idea, but for us to do that, this panel has to come off."

Watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIpoC65bpX4&feature=player_detailpage#t=1190

The Phanteks manual even says that only a 140 or 280 "140mm form factor" will fit on the bottom, and as a matter of fact only 360 and 480 radiators that are "125mm width max" will fit down there. That's because there is only 125mm space between that panel and the wall the PSU is behind. A 420 will not fit there.


LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 9/25/13 at 12:32am
post #342 of 18678
@ unicron, im 99% sure that youll not loose two of the odd bays, you cant go lower than your ram (if you can please correct me and link to those lowprofile modules) since the rad isnt offset that much like some of the fractal design cases.. Ah, why couldnt they add 15 mm to the top for a monsta/ut60 and full population? frown.gif
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post #343 of 18678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxycon View Post

@ unicron, im 99% sure that youll not loose two of the odd bays, you cant go lower than your ram (if you can please correct me and link to those lowprofile modules) since the rad isnt offset that much like some of the fractal design cases.. Ah, why couldnt they add 15 mm to the top for a monsta/ut60 and full population? frown.gif

Jesse writes in his FAQs that 120mm series rads are offset by quite a bit:
Quote:
What is the max clearance for a radiator installed in the top panel?

- The case has a clearance of 70mm for mounting a radiator in the roof. The mounts are offset by ~54mm so installing a 60mm (120mm series) radiator in push pull should not be an issue. As long as you do not have anything taller than 53mm on the motherboard (including ram), you can even install a 480mm monsta radiator in push pull. The X79 Dark, and G-Skill ram CAN be used with a monsta rad in push pull.

I've no plans to try to put a 480 monsta up there, and not sure how that would work though, as even if your memory and mobo heatsinks all were under 54mm, I'm not sure you'd be able to cram tubing and fittings to a CPU waterblock in that amount of space, and it looks to me like a monsta, especially with push fans, would hang down as far as the CPU on most boards. Or if not I suspect it'd be close.

I really would like to put a 60mm 480 up there in push pull, but not at the expense of 2 of my 5.25 bays. Even if a 60mm thick rad with a push fan will fit just above that 2nd from the top bay, I wouldn't want to do that if it would be so close to a disc drive or whatnot I might want to put there that it impeded airflow. It's not that big a deal to me though if I have to settle for a 45mm 480 instead. The cooling performance differences between a UT60 and an XT45 are pretty minor.

I do like asking questions & figuring out for myself what might work or not, but I'll just need to wait on my case to be delivered to see for myself what will fit before I order my rads. No big deal.

On another note:
The first wave of items to go in my Enthoo Primo has arrived thumbsupsmiley.png

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

14 GeLid UV Blue wing 120s (for push-pull on a 480 and a 360 rad), a bunch of power connectors (24-pin, 8-pin, pci-e, sata, a set of modular plugs for an AX1200) & all new pins to go in them from ModDIY, and an order of black and blue braided cable sleeving, heatshrink & a new crimper from MDPC. Also, (not pictured) I got a new heat gun & soldering iron, solder, a set of helping hands, an auto-wire stripper, and a couple spools of 18awg & 22awg hook-up wire.

And tomorrow I should have my GPU waterblocks and a few other goodies delivered also.
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 9/25/13 at 1:29pm
post #344 of 18678
Thread Starter 
Nice, blue and black to match the blue light strip. Looking forward to seeing your build. thumb.gif

To use a 420 in bottom; the side panel with Phanteks logo on it has to be removed.

To use a 480 in bottom is no problem. Jesse's build has a 480 Monsta bottom radiator in his. He test fit a 420 x 60mm in the top but it was too close to motherboard so he ended up using a 360 x 45mm. I think it was because of thickness of radiators he had on hand and not width.
http://themodzoo.com/forum/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/reviews/cases/phanteks-enthoo-primo-full-tower-review-r67?pg=6

Does it make much difference in cooling to run 420 vs 480? Surface area is 588sq cm vs 576sq cm.. only 2% different.
post #345 of 18678
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post


Does it make much difference in cooling to run 420 vs 480? Surface area is 588sq cm vs 576sq cm.. only 2% different.

One difference is going to be the fans. There is a plethora of 120mm fans geared towards rad use with high static and low noise, while 140mm are few and far between. The included fans with the Enthoo happen to be good in this aspect, but they won't match up to a GT. I used a 280 with 4 of the Phanteks fans and am very happy with the results.
post #346 of 18678
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

The included fans with the Enthoo happen to be good in this aspect, but they won't match up to a GT. I used a 280 with 4 of the Phanteks fans and am very happy with the results.
Which fans are you using on your 280? I'm guessing the PH-F140SP_BK? It's 82cfm

The included Enthoo Primo 140mm fans are 3x PH-F140SP_BK & 2x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED in front. Phanteks has the new PWM PH-F140XP_BK with 140mm mounting holes and the PH-F140HP with 120 fan mounting holes in black, white, blue & red that comes on coolers now.. and their original PH-F140TS 140mm cooler fan in black, white, red, orange & blue.

I think there are plenty of 140mm fans that are good for cooler/radiator use, meaning whichever of 420 or 480 will fit is the best choice.

It would take a little more work to find what 140mm fans are good.. and many have 120mm mounts so would need a 120 to 140mm mounting plate/shroud adapter to use on 140mm coolers. Pretty easy to make. Sheet cut to size of radiator with 140mm holes for fans with 120mm holes for mounting fan and 140mm holes for mounting to radiator:
Off he top of my head:
Scythe has Kaze Maru up to 104.5cfm, Slip Stream KazeMaru2 up to 92.4cfm
Thermalright TY-140, 141, 143, 145, 147 fans. The TY-143 is 2500rpm 130cfm.
Silverstone FHp-141 38mm thick 1200rpm 170cfm

140mm mount
Scythe Slip Stream 140XT PWM is 70cfm
Phanteks PH-F140XP PWM is 85cfm
There are Corsair, Noctua, Delta, etc.
Edited by doyll - 9/25/13 at 5:43am
post #347 of 18678
Does anybody know if the EP is going to be available at the usual suspect e-tailers (i.e. newegg, amazon, etc)? Shipping from Phanteks online store is expensive, so I'm reluctant to place a pre-order; but I'm also reluctant to wait until late October only to find out that orders are backed up and the case isn't being sold through newegg/amazon/etc. I've already waited SO LONG to start my build, I can't possibly push it back even farther. lol
post #348 of 18678
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Which fans are you using on your 280? I'm guessing the PH-F140SP_BK? It's 82cfm

The included Enthoo Primo 140mm fans are 3x PH-F140SP_BK & 2x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED in front. Phanteks has the new PWM PH-F140XP_BK with 140mm mounting holes and the PH-F140HP with 120 fan mounting holes in black, white, blue & red that comes on coolers now.. and their original PH-F140TS 140mm cooler fan in black, white, red, orange & blue.

I think there are plenty of 140mm fans that are good for cooler/radiator use, meaning whichever of 420 or 480 will fit is the best choice.

It would take a little more work to find what 140mm fans are good.. and many have 120mm mounts so would need a 120 to 140mm mounting plate/shroud adapter to use on 140mm coolers. Pretty easy to make. Sheet cut to size of radiator with 140mm holes for fans with 120mm holes for mounting fan and 140mm holes for mounting to radiator:
Off he top of my head:
Scythe has Kaze Maru up to 104.5cfm, Slip Stream KazeMaru2 up to 92.4cfm
Thermalright TY-140, 141, 143, 145, 147 fans. The TY-143 is 2500rpm 130cfm.
Silverstone FHp-141 38mm thick 1200rpm 170cfm

140mm mount
Scythe Slip Stream 140XT PWM is 70cfm
Phanteks PH-F140XP PWM is 85cfm
There are Corsair, Noctua, Delta, etc.

CFMs don't mean squat for rads. Look into all of those fans a little harder and you will find that they all (and all other 140mm fans out to date) SUCK at developing high static pressure at lower RPMs / low dBs. And while static pressure won't tell you everything, it is a better indicator than CFM as to how well a fan will handle trying to blow through a restriction such as a radiator. Simply put: There never has, as of yet, been a halfway decent relatively silent 140mm fan for thick rads when compared to the 120mm choices. It's never even been close. That sad fact has been brought up here at OCN and every other site like it a gazillion times now.

The thing is you cannot take the manufacturer's word for it. You have to read the review testing done by folks like martinsliquidlab, just to name one.

I have been waiting to see how the new Phanteks PH-F140SP fans hold up in this regard, as they appear to have been made with this in mind, but no one's going to be sure until reputable comparison testing has been done, and I suspect that's likely to be 6 months from now at best.

---

Of course, if you're going to do a push-pull you can get by with some pretty decent results with many different makes of 140mm fans at slower/quieter speeds as the fans will work together to help overcome the restriction, or if you don't care all that much about fan noise then the same holds true if you want to crank your fans up. Plus, if you're already going overboard with more raddage than needed, which the Enthoo Primo should provide plenty of opportunity to do, then there's little doubt that you'll be fine cooling-wise with many different 140mm fan/rad combinations, but performance & silent operation-wise, you'll not even really be in the ballpark of what you could have done using most any of the many high static pressure 120mm fans out there.

I guess I could/should add that I threw most of that out the window myself in the end when I went with my fan choice of GeLid UV Blue Wing 120s, as I was for the most part choosing to go with the black & uv blue color-scheme above all else, and then after that selecting the best fans I could find that fit it. If I was purely looking at silent performance on a radiator I'd have went with Gentle Typhoons but I really didn't like the grey color (and I even considered buying GTs and painting/dying the blades). As it is the fans I chose look to be a really good match for the UV Blue acrylic tubing I'll be using, and their performance is better than average as best I can tell. Some reviews rate the GeLid Wing 120s right up there with the best of them, but others more middle-of-the-road. Price-wise they sure weren't 'middle-of-the-road' though, although I did find a comparatively good deal on them so snagged them up while I could.

We all make our product choices based on many other things than performance. Things like looks, cost, expected reliability, brand loyalty, etc all come into play. That's a good thing, or else all of our rigs would be identical.

Late edit:
Round 2 of goodies for my Enthoo Primo build just arrived. thumbsupsmiley.png

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

XSPC Razor waterblocks and backplates for my GTX 760s (shame the blocks have to say GTX 670 on them though), A 140mm GeLid for the rear of the case, Primochill UV Blue rigid acrylic tubing, and a 16" UV light stick.


Almost missed the delivery because frozencpu required a signature. I was getting out the shower when the UPS guy came knocking and just happened to look out the window in time to see him driving away. Had to hurry up and get dressed & drive all around for 15 minutes like a madman until I spotted that big brown truck. Good thing too because I have to work the next couple days and wouldn't have been able to get my delivery any other way.

It'll be next week sometime before my next item gets here. I just ordered yesterday another Corsair AX1200 (the only PSU I even consider buying any more yessir.gif ), then I'll probably take a bit of a break while I finish deciding on mobo/cpu. Might wait on the Rampage IV Black edition & get a 4930k for it, or I might go with an MPower Max & 4770k, or I actually REALLY like the new ASUS X79 Deluxe, all except for those gawdawful gold heatsinks. Damn shame. I might just go ahead and get it anyway and take them off and spray paint them or strip the gold off of them and have them anodized black if I can find a place to do it. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will make waterblocks for it.

I dunno. Just spitballin at this point. Decisions... Decisions... The longer this Enthoo Primo takes to get here the more I can't make my mind up about much of anything. lol
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 9/25/13 at 12:56pm
post #349 of 18678
@Unicr0nhunter, I have updated the review, and will update the radiator chart to include that a 420 will only fit the bottom if you are willing to mod. I apologize that I goofed up on that, and I'm glad that you guys brought it up. No excuses for the mistake, just oversight, and will make sure this does not happen again.

FAQ update -

Can I install a 420mm radiator in the bottom of the case?
- Depends on how comfortable you are with modding. In order to fit a 420mm radiator in the bottom you would have to modify the panel that conceals the HDD cages, and the drive bays. You would also have to use 120mm fans with 140mm to 120mm adapters. If you do not want to use adapters, you will have to drill holes in the bottom for 140mm fan mounting.

Other thing that I would like to add is that you can change the orientation of the SSD drive mounts. Instead of having your SSD mounted horizontally, I have mine mounted vertically as that allows for better cable management and routing. Will upload a pic of that as well. Drawback to that is you will only be able to to use one cage (as it takes more space). The mounting points are square so you can mount the SSD bracket either horizontally or vertically.
Edited by jassilamba - 9/25/13 at 2:29pm
post #350 of 18678
Quote:
Originally Posted by jassilamba View Post

@Unicr0nhunter, I have updated the review, and will update the radiator chart to include that a 420 will only fit the bottom if you are willing to mod. I apologize that I goofed up on that, and I'm glad that you guys brought it up. No excuses for the mistake, just oversight, and will make sure this does not happen again.

FAQ update -

Can I install a 420mm radiator in the bottom of the case?
- Depends on how comfortable you are with modding. In order to fit a 420mm radiator in the bottom you would have to modify the panel that conceals the HDD cages, and the drive bays. You would also have to use 120mm fans with 140mm to 120mm adapters. If you do not want to use adapters, you will have to drill holes in the bottom for 140mm fan mounting.

Appreciate that. It's came up a few times now and each time I've tried to point out all the reasons why I could tell a 420 wasn't going to fit past that panel, but it's sometimes hard to convince anyone anything when they can read somewhere else someone saying it will fit. No big deal. Everyone makes mistakes.
Quote:
Other thing that I would like to add is that you can change the orientation of the SSD drive mounts. Instead of having your SSD mounted horizontally, I have mine mounted vertically as that allows for better cable management and routing. Will upload a pic of that as well. Drawback to that is you will only be able to to use one cage (as it takes more space). The mounting points are square so you can mount the SSD bracket either horizontally or vertically.

Since there are 3 mounting locations, does that mean both brackets can still be used, just not both of them in the 2 locations above/below one another nearest the front of the case?
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