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post #3491 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkron View Post

Hey guys, I'm still in the theory crafting stage of my build, and thank god I read this thread. Soooo much good information here, you guys are amazing. It's taken me a solid week to get through the entire thread (and a significant amount of "work" time, oops!) but I'm super glad I did. I've changed from a 480 to a 420 rad at the top, and got heaps of ideas. I do have a few questions for you guys though.

1. I'm definitely sold on the 420 rad at the top. Someone mentioned for the fill ports, that you need to pull the rad back a little to expose them. Does this effect the mounting of the rad? Does exposing the fill ports still allow the rad and fans to line up correctly with the mounts?

The rad/fan mounts are slots, not holes, so the rad positioning can be shifted a bit however you need it.
Quote:
2. What fittings do I need to create that fill point off the top rad port mentioned in question 1? I see a 30mm fitting (I'll be using bitspower matte black but that's irrelevant). It seems they only come in female to female? Does that mean I need a tiny male to male piece to go between the port and extender? And do I then just put a stopper in the extender until I'm ready to fill?

A standard male-to-female extension and a stop fitting is all that's really needed. Just make sure it's not so long with the plug screwed in that it interferes with the top cover. Don't know if a 30mm will fit. Most any 10, 15, 20, or 25mm extension should be fine.
Quote:
3. I think you guys have convinced me to go for a 280 rad down the bottom, that way I can use one of the ports as a drain port (and for this I assume I just need a 90 deg fitting and QDC) and mount my pump where the bottom HDD cage was. And there entails my question, pump size. I'm going to be running a 4770K, 2x 780 Ti, 420 XT45 rad up top, 280 UT60 rad down bottom, and a 280 ST30 rad at the front/side. Everything overclocked as far as humanly possible. Will a MCP35x do the job here? Or should I upgrade to a MCP35x2? I'm leaning towards going for the x2 in order to get the system running quieter, but want to know if the single will handle the load as well.

Sounds like you want Jack's setup exactly. Just make sure you have a loop with plenty of restriction and that you are setup to dial the pump speed on the 35x pumps down & preferably are using the optional heatsinks too as DDCs like the MCP35x do have a well-known tendency to overheat if run at full speed for very long especially in loops with little restriction.
Quote:
4. Fans. Everyone says the Phanteks fans that come with the case are amazing. I need to order a few more fans for the rads, and they will be highly visible (top and bottom rad mounted, back of case exhaust). My issue is, I'm going for a red / black build, will the white fan blades all over the place be too controversial to the theme? What are some other really good 140mm fans in either black or red that might do the job?

No idea. The only fans that came with the case that I'm currently using are the front ones.
Quote:
5. Temp sensors. I have no idea on dimensions of these (have never water cooled before), can I simply bang one into a spare port on a rad? Or do I need to add a T block somewhere and do it that way?

If using a stop plug type liquid temp sensor, yes, you can mount in any spare port. You want it to be placed where there is a constant flow past it, so an otherwise unused port in a rad can be good. Another option is to use an inline temp sensor instead.
Quote:
6. Will this EK supremacy fit for the socket 1150 i7 4770k? On the spec sheet it doesn't list socket 1150. Link below:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_878_879&products_id=21128

1150 socket mounting holes are identical as 1155/1156 (75mm spacing), so any cooler/block that works for one also works for the other.
Quote:
7. Fan Controllers. I was originally looking at the FC5 v3, but the knobs won't fit and I don't want to push it back into the case (did I mention I love you guys for this thread? xD). I'm now looking at the lamptron CW611 and the Aquaero 6 XT. Can anyone shed some light on these as I'm struggling to find any reviews that give adequate info on these. I imagine the CW611 is very similar to the FC5 v3, just with 36W per channel. I would really like some info the Aquaero though, it looks super techy (which I love). And comes with a remote and software! The software really intrigues me, is it able to set the controller based off cpu temps?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1474470/ocn-aquaero-owners-club/

Anything you want to know about any of the Aquaero models you can find out there.

The CW611 puts out a smooth steady voltage, whereas Lamptron's cheaper fan controllers like the FC3 put out a pulsing (PWM) voltage like lots of other cheap fan controllers. The latter does work ok in most instances, but some fans really do not like the PWM voltage control, hence you will usually see a lot of reviews on them complaining that the controller causes their fans to have a clicking sound.

IT Diva put a CW611 and an FC3 on the oscilloscope here that pretty clearly shows the difference between them. The CW611 is a flat steady line and the FC3 is a wavy PWM signal (not to be confused with 'PWM' fans/pumps - that's a whole different animal):
http://www.overclock.net/t/1470452/pwm-pump-control-rive-be-limitations-and-lack-of-affordable-alternatives/20_20#post_21880552
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 4/1/14 at 4:18am
post #3492 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkron View Post

Hey guys, I'm still in the theory crafting stage of my build, and thank god I read this thread. Soooo much good information here, you guys are amazing. It's taken me a solid week to get through the entire thread (and a significant amount of "work" time, oops!) but I'm super glad I did. I've changed from a 480 to a 420 rad at the top, and got heaps of ideas. I do have a few questions for you guys though.

1. I'm definitely sold on the 420 rad at the top. Someone mentioned for the fill ports, that you need to pull the rad back a little to expose them. Does this effect the mounting of the rad? Does exposing the fill ports still allow the rad and fans to line up correctly with the mounts?

2. What fittings do I need to create that fill point off the top rad port mentioned in question 1? I see a 30mm fitting (I'll be using bitspower matte black but that's irrelevant). It seems they only come in female to female? Does that mean I need a tiny male to male piece to go between the port and extender? And do I then just put a stopper in the extender until I'm ready to fill?

3. I think you guys have convinced me to go for a 280 rad down the bottom, that way I can use one of the ports as a drain port (and for this I assume I just need a 90 deg fitting and QDC) and mount my pump where the bottom HDD cage was. And there entails my question, pump size. I'm going to be running a 4770K, 2x 780 Ti, 420 XT45 rad up top, 280 UT60 rad down bottom, and a 280 ST30 rad at the front/side. Everything overclocked as far as humanly possible. Will a MCP35x do the job here? Or should I upgrade to a MCP35x2? I'm leaning towards going for the x2 in order to get the system running quieter, but want to know if the single will handle the load as well.

4. Fans. Everyone says the Phanteks fans that come with the case are amazing. I need to order a few more fans for the rads, and they will be highly visible (top and bottom rad mounted, back of case exhaust). My issue is, I'm going for a red / black build, will the white fan blades all over the place be too controversial to the theme? What are some other really good 140mm fans in either black or red that might do the job?

5. Temp sensors. I have no idea on dimensions of these (have never water cooled before), can I simply bang one into a spare port on a rad? Or do I need to add a T block somewhere and do it that way?

6. Will this EK supremacy fit for the socket 1150 i7 4770k? On the spec sheet it doesn't list socket 1150. Link below:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_878_879&products_id=21128

7. Fan Controllers. I was originally looking at the FC5 v3, but the knobs won't fit and I don't want to push it back into the case (did I mention I love you guys for this thread? xD). I'm now looking at the lamptron CW611 and the Aquaero 6 XT. Can anyone shed some light on these as I'm struggling to find any reviews that give adequate info on these. I imagine the CW611 is very similar to the FC5 v3, just with 36W per channel. I would really like some info the Aquaero though, it looks super techy (which I love). And comes with a remote and software! The software really intrigues me, is it able to set the controller based off cpu temps?

Sorry for all the questions guys!!

Hello mate!

I cant answer all the question but i can help you with some of em!

1. it will still fit couse the mount in the phantek are long "channels" instead of holes so you can slide the rad to the position you like.

2. well im doing it simple, screw of the plug. And then i use a simple Funnel into the hole xD

3 and 4. cant answer on i hope someone else can help you with that.

5. well i have simple 1/4G temp sensors from xspc i think? i have them simply screwd in here and there. one in the extra outlet of my pump and 2 at random connection point in my rads, think of that it makes diffrent if you screw them in at the inlet or outlet of the rad. if you are intrested in the coolest point of the system or hottest.

6. yes from my knowledge all ek EK supremacy blocks do fit 1150/55.

7. cant help you with that sadly. im spinning of all 15 fans of the built in pwm hubb of the case.

Hope i coud help a little atleast smile.gif


EDIT: @Unicr0nhunter Is as always faster, and has clearly the better answers and besides the better English skills. xD
Edited by Gunilla95 - 4/1/14 at 4:24am
post #3493 of 18689
Haha, he did have to do a little stealth edit to fix his formatting if that makes you feel any better rolleyes.gif

Thanks for the info guys, that cleares up a few things. One question I do have Unicron, you mention about restriction in the loop. I haven't read anything about that during this thread, I would have imagined less restriction would be better? That would mean more water flowing quicker, thus cooling slightly more?

The only thing left is the fans and the controller. I'll have to dig a bit deeper into the Aquaero thread. I'm half leaning towards just buying it and working it out, looks like it will do everything I could ever want plus more!
post #3494 of 18689
18w DDCs (like the 35x) are prone to the pump itself overheating especially if run at full speed in a loop with little restriction for very long. Unlike a D5 which doesn't get hot as it dumps its heat into the loop. a DDC dumps most of its heat through the bottom of the pump into the air around it. That's why they sell heatsinks for them which can help deal with their overheating issues. Don't get me wrong, the DDC is a good pump, but it only really shines in loops that have more than an average # of blocks, and only then when properly set up to keep the speeds (and thus the pump temps) down. DDCs are not known to be bulletproof reliable like the D5 is. The DDC is best known for having a strong enough head pressure to handle loops with more than a few waterblocks of restriction.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, here's just a taste of some of what you'll find if you search this forum or any other like it for 'DDC' + 'overheat' or 'melt' or 'failure' etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat View Post

The issue I see isn't w/ too much pressure. It is too little restriction. DDCs should not be used in a low restriction loop. I would not suggest running two pumps for 2 blocks. There is a good chance you'll burn out the PCBs unless you are cooling them somehow. The reason why DDCs have a bad reputation for reliability is when they are used like that. 2 pumps will not benefit temperatures at all. Flowrate has a very small impact on water temperatures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat View Post

Go ahead and make a poll asking about DDC reliability. I can guarantee you that most people will say it is unreliable. There have been threads about DDC deaths on pretty much every water cooling forum out there. There are reasons why DIYINHK sells replacement PCBs for them. Same reason why three different manufacturers sell heatsinks for them. I myself have 5 dead ones. Back in the day people didn't realize why they dying. Now that I know to slow my DDC3.2 PWM down, I have had zero issues with it.

If you got a 7C drop in temperatures by adding a second pump you have issues w/ your loop. A blockage or something else wrong. None of your blocks are restrictive. You should definitely not be under 1GPM w/ a single pump. The difference between 1GPM and 2GPM shouldn't be more than a degree at most. I myself run my loop w/ my DDC @ 1200 rpm, which I'd guess is around 0.2GPM. The different between 1200rpm and 4500 rpm is a whopping 3 degrees.

A pic of my DDC3 graveyard. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE View Post

The 35X doesnt like to be run flat out for long periods,they are affected by the usual DDC overheating issues..
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)







Which is why i dont recommend them and recommend the D5 instead.

Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 4/1/14 at 6:57am
post #3495 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkron View Post

Hey guys, I'm still in the theory crafting stage of my build, and thank god I read this thread. Soooo much good information here, you guys are amazing. It's taken me a solid week to get through the entire thread (and a significant amount of "work" time, oops!) but I'm super glad I did. I've changed from a 480 to a 420 rad at the top, and got heaps of ideas. I do have a few questions for you guys though.

1. I'm definitely sold on the 420 rad at the top. Someone mentioned for the fill ports, that you need to pull the rad back a little to expose them. Does this effect the mounting of the rad? Does exposing the fill ports still allow the rad and fans to line up correctly with the mounts?

2. What fittings do I need to create that fill point off the top rad port mentioned in question 1? I see a 30mm fitting (I'll be using bitspower matte black but that's irrelevant). It seems they only come in female to female? Does that mean I need a tiny male to male piece to go between the port and extender? And do I then just put a stopper in the extender until I'm ready to fill?

3. I think you guys have convinced me to go for a 280 rad down the bottom, that way I can use one of the ports as a drain port (and for this I assume I just need a 90 deg fitting and QDC) and mount my pump where the bottom HDD cage was. And there entails my question, pump size. I'm going to be running a 4770K, 2x 780 Ti, 420 XT45 rad up top, 280 UT60 rad down bottom, and a 280 ST30 rad at the front/side. Everything overclocked as far as humanly possible. Will a MCP35x do the job here? Or should I upgrade to a MCP35x2? I'm leaning towards going for the x2 in order to get the system running quieter, but want to know if the single will handle the load as well.

4. Fans. Everyone says the Phanteks fans that come with the case are amazing. I need to order a few more fans for the rads, and they will be highly visible (top and bottom rad mounted, back of case exhaust). My issue is, I'm going for a red / black build, will the white fan blades all over the place be too controversial to the theme? What are some other really good 140mm fans in either black or red that might do the job?

5. Temp sensors. I have no idea on dimensions of these (have never water cooled before), can I simply bang one into a spare port on a rad? Or do I need to add a T block somewhere and do it that way?

6. Will this EK supremacy fit for the socket 1150 i7 4770k? On the spec sheet it doesn't list socket 1150. Link below:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_878_879&products_id=21128

7. Fan Controllers. I was originally looking at the FC5 v3, but the knobs won't fit and I don't want to push it back into the case (did I mention I love you guys for this thread? xD). I'm now looking at the lamptron CW611 and the Aquaero 6 XT. Can anyone shed some light on these as I'm struggling to find any reviews that give adequate info on these. I imagine the CW611 is very similar to the FC5 v3, just with 36W per channel. I would really like some info the Aquaero though, it looks super techy (which I love). And comes with a remote and software! The software really intrigues me, is it able to set the controller based off cpu temps?

Sorry for all the questions guys!!


Welcome mate. Sounds like you will end up with a similar loop like mine. Uni and Gunilla already point you to very good directions.

1) Yes, you have room to control the position of your 420 mm rad on top. Here is what I found. Mine have the ports facing front (is a xt 45 so I have 6 ports). That way I place the pump in the 5.25 bays and the ports in the rad are just there to connect straight to the pump. I use two d5 and after have a big problem with ek dual top (leaking everywhere from the o-rings - mounted perfectly I should say so it was a manufacturing problem) I switch to two single tops place at different positions in the loop. So with the ports facing front the rad can actually go way back on the case freeing more space in front for the fan controllers. I highly recommend both models you are targeting (aquacomputer and cw611) In fact I have both with the aquero just going in the system this week. The other way around (ports facing back) the rad will have to be placed a little bit to the front to allow the ports on the back/top of the rad to be used as a fill port. No big deal but just sharing what I found with you.

2) in fact just regular compression or barbs will do the trick. I just leave the stop plug there in my rad and when I need to fill it I unscrew the stop plug and place a compression there with a tube on it or a funnel to fill the rad. You can place extension or even qd or bitspower valve there if you want but you don't need it.

3) I would go with a d5 personally. Just for your reference a single d5 in my loop (similar to what you plan) get me around 1 gpm at full speed (0.9 to be precise) . With two d5 I get 1.3/1.4 GPM with both gpus in serial and 1.6/1.7 with both gpus in parallel. Not apples to apples comparison since the parallel number came from the dual top while the serial came from the two single tops. On the drain question yes you can use a 90 degrees adapter (get a small one like swiftech or alphacool or the really tiny bitspower), you will need most likely some extender (I place two 15 mm there) and either a QD or a bitwspoer valve. I went with the valve since I thought was actually easier that the qd since I have the second pump just above the rad (with tubes thee too...rolleyes.gif) which make difficult to place hands down there and use the QD. Both solutions will be clean.

4) The fans are fantastic, my theme is red/black too and I don't think is bad on the contrary. You can check some pictures in my build log. To be fair on the bottom rad (280) I mix two Phanteks fans (hidden below it) an two Prolimatech red ones which goes well with the theme. Both fans are excellent and work just fine together.


5) any temp sensor like bitspower g1/4 will do the tricky. No need for fancy ones. Yet, if you go the aquero route you can consider a aquacomputer flow/temp meter and hook it to the aquero.

6) it should if is compatible with 1155/56 socket. But you can check in the ek configurator page giving your mb model to the ek system.

7) As I said I recommend both. In fact will be using both. The cw611 will control all volt regulated fans in the system and the aquero will control all my sensors (temp and flow meters) as well as my two d5 pumps PWM. This is beacuse I already have the cw611 but in your case I would either go one route or the other. The aquaero is a really complete thing. It does have PWM capabilities that the cw611 does not have. But if budget is a concern go the cw611 and you will not regret if you don't need pwm capability.

That's it mate. Feel free to ask more questions and hope this helps. Soon will upload the pictures of the final assembled system although both in my log and here you have some (a little older) of it.

Cheers
Edited by Gabrielzm - 4/1/14 at 1:03pm
post #3496 of 18689
Some scary stuff unicron!

Thanks Gabriel, that's answered a few of my queries.

I originally looked at the DDC pumps because they were quieter as that's a big point throughout my whole system (hence the slight overkill on rads). Ill do some more research on comparing the D5 and the DDC tonight. If i went the DDC now, i think it would definitely be the MCP35x2 with a heatsink and 2x 80mm fans so i could keep the speed down and dissipate some of the heat. Will do some more research tonight.
post #3497 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkron View Post

Some scary stuff unicron!

Thanks Gabriel, that's answered a few of my queries.

I originally looked at the DDC pumps because they were quieter as that's a big point throughout my whole system (hence the slight overkill on rads). Ill do some more research on comparing the D5 and the DDC tonight. If i went the DDC now, i think it would definitely be the MCP35x2 with a heatsink and 2x 80mm fans so i could keep the speed down and dissipate some of the heat. Will do some more research tonight.

You welcome mate. If it is your first incursion on getting Snorkle.gif then you definitely should check this:

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/12/25/swiftech-mcp-655-pwm-drive-pump-review/

and several other pumps reviews there. It is a wonderful resource to the community. Martin is very through in his tests.

Best wishes
post #3498 of 18689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkron View Post

Some scary stuff unicron!

Thanks Gabriel, that's answered a few of my queries.

I originally looked at the DDC pumps because they were quieter as that's a big point throughout my whole system (hence the slight overkill on rads). Ill do some more research on comparing the D5 and the DDC tonight. If i went the DDC now, i think it would definitely be the MCP35x2 with a heatsink and 2x 80mm fans so i could keep the speed down and dissipate some of the heat. Will do some more research tonight.

Ummm, no way are DDCs quieter than D5s. It's the other way around.

Of the 2 most popular watercooling pumps by Laing, D5s (aka MCP-655, PMP450, VPP655) are quieter, have a faster flow rate, and a better record for dependability. D5s don't get hot. The most popular model is the D5 Vario, which has a 5-position speed control knob on the back. You just set it to whatever speed you want and leave it.

18w DDCs (aka MCP35x, PMP400) have a higher head pressure making them better for loops with more restriction. They are also smaller, at least initially, but not-so-much after an aftermarket heatsink has been installed which is strongly recommended. The PWM DDCs are pretty dependable when setup to keep their speeds down.

There's also a 10w DDC version that doesn't suffer from the overheating issues. It has about the same head pressure as a D5 at a lower flow rate, and it's not as quiet.
post #3499 of 18689
Few pics of my setup.




Gonna reroute the pcie and ATX cables through the grommets and get a bit cut out of the res bracket. Cant install it at present due to the length of the gpu.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k MSI xX99S Mpower mSI GTX 980TI gaming edition 16gb Gskill ripjaw4 3000mhz c15 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Samsung F1 1 TB Seagate 750gb LG blu ray 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Alpenfohn k2 Win 7 home premium 64 Asus ROG swift PG278Q Ozone strike pro 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair hx 850w Phanteks enthoo primo Logitech G500 Boogie bug xl 
  hide details  
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My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k MSI xX99S Mpower mSI GTX 980TI gaming edition 16gb Gskill ripjaw4 3000mhz c15 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Samsung F1 1 TB Seagate 750gb LG blu ray 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Alpenfohn k2 Win 7 home premium 64 Asus ROG swift PG278Q Ozone strike pro 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair hx 850w Phanteks enthoo primo Logitech G500 Boogie bug xl 
  hide details  
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post #3500 of 18689
Thread Starter 
Looks very nice indeed. :thumb:So 2 front and 1 bottom intakes with back and top exhaust?
The support under front of your desk really is close to top of case!.
I assume you blocked the unused top fan holes to keep heated exhaust from coming back into case.
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