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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 353

post #3521 of 18685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeford View Post

Hi,
I am planning my first WC build and settled on the Enthoo Primo. I don't have the case yet as I am waiting for the special editions to become available for pre-order. Since this is going to be a learning experience for me, I have decided to first try a low noise, low fan count, and Push or Pull rather than Push/'Pull. I have decided about much of the hardware. This what I want to try first:

Loop will be the CPU and GPU
Total fan count = 8x 140mm Phanteks
420 45mm radiator in top
280 60mm radiator in bottom

But I am really struggling with how I want to do the airflow.
Fan Placements = 2x front case, 1x rear case , 2x bottom radiator , and 3 fans top radiator.

So Obviously the front and bottom will be intakes and the single rear fan will be exhaust, but what I am strugging on is what to for with the airflow for the top radiator fans. Due to extreme dust in my house, I MUST HAVE positive case pressure. If I use the top radiator as exhaust, I would be at 4 intakes and 4 exhausts. But I think I would have a slightly negative case pressure due to the fact that the intakes are slightly hindered with more filters and the exhausts are going thru a thinner radiator. So this, along with the school of thought about using outside air as radiator air flow, I thought I might also use the top radiator as intake. But that just leaves one single case fan, and all of the honeycomb vents as exhaust. I have an immediate knee jerk reaction to 7 intakes and 1 exhaust but with all the honeycomb venting in this case, I am wondering if it would be ok. Below is a image I took from another forum describing the exact situation. But I was wonder if anyone in the club has done it like this with this specific case and what their experience was. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



Taking into account that you "MUST HAVE positive case pressure" from the filtered intakes that's definitely your better option, assuming you are going to be using the fan hub and all of the fans will be going at the same speeds.
post #3522 of 18685
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I see! I see! biggrin.gif
Thanks.
I think that is still too restrictive.

I'm looking for something like the middle mesh below; the H4.5 T5 mesh. 3/16" hexagonal hole with 7/32" spacing which is 4.5mm hexagonal holes with 5mm spacing 1mm thick mild steel 1000x2000mm size. I've found it and am waiting for price quote. Size of 1 x 2 meters is quite large. Way more than I need. biggrin.gif

Hexagonal Hole
  • Hexagonal holes 4.5mm;
  • Staggered pitch 5mm
  • Hole: H4.5
  • Pitch: T5
  • Material Thickness (mm): 1.0
  • Open Area 81%




Problem is it's in 1 x 2 meter sheets. biggrin.gif

Talking to a guy with a 3D printer about making custom grills out of plastic. wink.gif
Here's a sample he made for his build.

Edited by doyll - 4/7/14 at 6:38am
post #3523 of 18685
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

[/SPOILER]
Talking to a guy with a 3D printer about making custom grills out of plastic. wink.gif
Here's a sample he made for his build.

Looks a bit like some of Coldzero's stuff.

http://www.coldzero.eu/234-dual-layer-grills
post #3524 of 18685
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

Looks a bit like some of Coldzero's stuff.

http://www.coldzero.eu/234-dual-layer-grills
It does. What I show above has a small hex size I think.

Spec of mesh I think I want is H4.5T5 or H6T6.7.
H = flat to flat of Hexagon
T = center to center of hexagons.

Web width is T - H so 0.5mm for H4.5T5 and0 .7mm for H6T6.7.

Not sure how thick to make it. Stock mesh is 0.71mm thick.

EP top gril is 10mm thick.
Maybe get 2 pieces and sandwich a filter between them. Top 1mm thick and bottom 9mm or slightly less to accommodate filter media. Could do similar on front grill.

Maybe something similar on right side strip between case and light strip?
post #3525 of 18685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkron View Post

As for the fan controller, it's the "hours of geeky enjoyment" I'm after xD

I know its way over the top and unnecessary, but it will be fun smile.gif. I cant wait to hook up all my pumps, fans, LEDs, and play with the software options..

Nothing wrong with that smile.gif .... I also fall int the same "guilty as charged" classification !


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Redtide View Post

What I hadn't decided on yet was tubing/crystal and the pumps. Am still up in the air on tubing/crystal, but was leaning heavily towards D5 Varios in series. Per Jack it appears that either a pair of 35x2s or D5s that are PWMs might be a much better way to go as far as ease of controllability and keeping fan noise to a minimum.

Setup will be: pump(s) > UT60 280 > 2 x GPU in series > XT45 420 > CPU > res > pump(s)

Both radiators will be push/pull.

What pump setup would work the best or is all that is needed for this loop?

This is my first WC build. Y'all have provided me a wealth of information with your posts/photos - Thanks.

Clarification .... "a pair of 35x2's" is 4 pumps..... the 35x2 is two 35x's pre-mounted with a common top. .... if ya go that way don't forget the heat sink.

Pump(s) - Swiftech Dual Extreme Duty Small Form Factor 12 VDC Industrial PWM Pump - Black (MCP35X2-BK)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14961/ex-pmp-173/Swiftech_Dual_Extreme_Duty_Small_Form_Factor_12_VDC_Industrial_PWM_Pump_-_Black_MCP35X2-BK.html

Pump Heat Sink - Swiftech MCP35x2 Dual Pump Heatsink (MCP35X2-HS)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16233/ex-pmp-195/Swiftech_MCP35x2_Dual_Pump_Heatsink_MCP35X2-HS.html

Heat Sink Fan - Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PC-P 80mm x 15mm Ultra Silent PWM Fan - 2500 RPM
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/image/16392/fan-1017_4.jpg/fan-1017/Noiseblocker_NB-BlackSilentPro_PC-P_80mm_x_15mm_Ultra_Silent_PWM_Fan_-_2500_RPM.html

As for what's best, that's a personal decision. Check the numbers in my previous post .... IIRC, for the exact same loop, for me it came down to two D5s at 90% PWM or the 35x2 at 50% PWM ....I went with the latter cause it had more oomph and at typical full load", it would on;y be at 50% rpm so less wear and tear and less noise. However, if you are doing GPUs in series, that's more reason to go with the 35x2 .... I went parallel but otherwise everything is same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeford View Post

Hi,
I am planning my first WC build and settled on the Enthoo Primo. I don't have the case yet as I am waiting for the special editions to become available for pre-order. Since this is going to be a learning experience for me, I have decided to first try a low noise, low fan count, and Push or Pull rather than Push/'Pull. I have decided about much of the hardware. This what I want to try first:

Loop will be the CPU and GPU
Total fan count = 8x 140mm Phanteks
420 45mm radiator in top
280 60mm radiator in bottom

But I am really struggling with how I want to do the airflow.
Fan Placements = 2x front case, 1x rear case , 2x bottom radiator , and 3 fans top radiator.

So Obviously the front and bottom will be intakes and the single rear fan will be exhaust, but what I am strugging on is what to for with the airflow for the top radiator fans. Due to extreme dust in my house, I MUST HAVE positive case pressure. If I use the top radiator as exhaust, I would be at 4 intakes and 4 exhausts. But I think I would have a slightly negative case pressure due to the fact that the intakes are slightly hindered with more filters and the exhausts are going thru a thinner radiator. So this, along with the school of thought about using outside air as radiator air flow, I thought I might also use the top radiator as intake. But that just leaves one single case fan, and all of the honeycomb vents as exhaust. I have an immediate knee jerk reaction to 7 intakes and 1 exhaust but with all the honeycomb venting in this case, I am wondering if it would be ok. Below is a image I took from another forum describing the exact situation. But I was wonder if anyone in the club has done it like this with this specific case and what their experience was.


I also decided to first try a low noise, low fan count, ..... Push rather than Push / Pull. and also have:

Total fan count = 8x 140mm Phanteks - I went with 10 ..... 3 LED on top / 2 LED in front / 2 on side / 2 on bottom / 1 at rear
420 45mm radiator in top - I have AlphaCool XT5-420 in push
280 60mm radiator in bottom - I have AlphaCool UT60-420 in push

Should be no struggle, every cfm of air in will get out. Ya want all rad fans blowing in the front blowing in and rear blowing out will be fine. Tho, I'd disagree that you unequivocally NEED to have positive case pressure, given the number of fans being 8, it's unavoidable with 5 rad fans blowing in. Yes, positive pressure makes everything much easier as Phanteks has nicely provided filtering on all inlet locations (even the PSU intake) but you could if so inclined filter all the grilles also. I like to make this point for one purpose and it relates directly to your " intakes are slightly hindered" statement:

It is far more important to have all inlets filtered, than it is to have positive case pressure. The word slightly does not apply with respect to the hindrance. Doyyl was the 1st to comment on this at the bottom intake and in testing how his observations affected by installation (less so because I only had a 280, not a 480), I found that the Phanteks grilles and filters present a very high restriction on air flow at the top also. So ya might be tempted to remove some of them. But .... and now we get to the meat of the pressure thing ..... positive pressure without filtering all inlets will not prevent dust buildup.

I wrestled with the IN versus OUT question a bit when considering how to mount the side panel fans ....

1) That would make 9 IN and 1 OUT ,,,,, and if the mounting locations were at the top, I mighta gone that way
2) Using them as OUTs would just short circuit teh flow from the intakes fans at the front.

With no restriction the exhaust grilles provide enough free area to make ya 7 IN fans quite happy.
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 4/7/14 at 8:22am
911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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post #3526 of 18685
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Not sure how thick to make it. Stock mesh is 0.71mm thick.

EP top gril is 10mm thick.
Maybe get 2 pieces and sandwich a filter between them. Top 1mm thick and bottom 9mm or slightly less to accommodate filter media. Could do similar on front grill.

Maybe something similar on right side strip between case and light strip?


I think I measured 0.74mm on the EP mesh .... but I only measured a flap after unbending, so the bend may have it off by a few hundredths. Looks to be relatively standard (0.7 - 0.8) for mesh .... The Modder's Mesh steel stuff was 22 gauge or 0.0299 inches (0.76 mm)....aluminum gauges are slightly thinner ....saw some of those on car grille sites.

One of the things holding me back from changing though was ..... how hard is it to get out the thin strips along the sides of front and top panels and how well will the hex bend around the corners ?
911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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Reply
911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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post #3527 of 18685
Thanks Jack. That makes me feel better
post #3528 of 18685
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I think I measured 0.74mm on the EP mesh .... but I only measured a flap after unbending, so the bend may have it off by a few hundredths. Looks to be relatively standard (0.7 - 0.8) for mesh .... The Modder's Mesh steel stuff was 22 gauge or 0.0299 inches (0.76 mm)....aluminum gauges are slightly thinner ....saw some of those on car grille sites.

One of the things holding me back from changing though was ..... how hard is it to get out the thin strips along the sides of front and top panels and how well will the hex bend around the corners ?

With 3D printer a new top panel to match original latch and keepings would be nor big deal.
Make the hex pattern like empty honeycomb about 10mm thick in two layers. Bottom 7-8mm and top 2mm with filter media between them giving top a 2mm relief.
Front would be vent to fit into existing opening.
Front side grill would be beveled as needed on side up over power led toward top of side frame (same relief on fans and top) and fit right over the stock grill.
Top grill would fit same way but end with a vertical edge in back of I/O sockets.
Both of these could have same 2mm face with thinner back to match or relief into side frame.

Look something like this
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/nataart/nataart0907/nataart090700007/5243596-combs.jpg
post #3529 of 18685
Hi,

A few weeks ago I made my first post here saying that I was divided between going air or water on this case. Well, I've made my decision and I'm going water on the CPU for now (GPU will be added to the loop in the coming months and that'll be it).

I have been learning about WC on the web and pretty much have already decided what components I should get. So, now I have some questions for you about radiator compatibility and fans suitability.

Will the Alphacool UT60 360 fit in the top of the case in a push/pull configuration (I'm just getting 3 fans for now, but would like to add more in the future)? If not, should I consider the 360 or 480 XT45 instead?

Which one is better and by how much? UT60 in pull or XT45 in push/pull?

I'm planning on pairing the Alphacool UT60 with NoiseBlocker's eLoop B12-3 120mm fans rated @1900 RPM. Do these make a good match or not? Are they among the best ones for the money?

Cheers
post #3530 of 18685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider49 View Post

Hi,

A few weeks ago I made my first post here saying that I was divided between going air or water on this case. Well, I've made my decision and I'm going water on the CPU for now (GPU will be added to the loop in the coming months and that'll be it).

I have been learning about WC on the web and pretty much have already decided what components I should get. So, now I have some questions for you about radiator compatibility and fans suitability.

Will the Alphacool UT60 360 fit in the top of the case in a push/pull configuration (I'm just getting 3 fans for now, but would like to add more in the future)? If not, should I consider the 360 or 480 XT45 instead?

Which one is better and by how much? UT60 in pull or XT45 in push/pull?

I'm planning on pairing the Alphacool UT60 with NoiseBlocker's eLoop B12-3 120mm fans rated @1900 RPM. Do these make a good match or not? Are they among the best ones for the money?

Cheers

The ut60 will certainly fit in pull. It will fit too in push/pull but might be a little bit uncomfortable for the cpu power PSU lanes usually on top of the motherboards. My bet is a UT 60 360 push/pull x a 480 xt45 push/pull the latter will be a better performer. In general more rad space will beat less space but thicker rads. In fact I would recommend going with xt45 420 mm (3x 140 mm) and use the Phateeks fans that comes with the case (get some extra) and put it in push/pull at only 40% v. That would be almost inaudible and an incredible performer while still having room left on top for fan controllers.

As for noiseblockers they are good fans. Check Martin's page you will have wonderful resources there (from fan testing to loop planing and rad space dissipation numbers) as well as pumps testing and so on.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/12/alphacool-nexxxos-ut60-360-radiator/

Good luck and if you need any help just ask here or shoot a PM
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