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[Official] Case PHANTEKS Case Club for lovers & owners - Page 354

post #3531 of 18688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider49 View Post

Hi,


Which one is better and by how much? UT60 in pull or XT45 in push/pull?


Concerning this specific question from your post, from the research I have done, having push/pull generally gives you a better performance by roughly 20% as sort of a baseline generalization. So generally speaking a push/pull thru a 45 will probably give you a slightly better performance than push thru a 60mm radiator. But there are several other factors that diminish that generalization.

First, fan speed & pressure majorly impacts radiator performance. From one test I read, pushing air a low speed thru a 80mm monsta had almost no improvement vs pushing air at low speed thru a 60mm. However, if a higher air speed is passed thru both, the 80mm would start to become a better performer. That makes sense when you think about it. But that does not mean the performance with the same fans on 60mm vs 45mm behave the same way. You will see greater performance on low rpms thru a 60mm than a 45mm.

So the point I am trying to make is air speed from fan rpms/pressure is a variable that is missing from your equation of "Radiator Thickness & Number of fans".

Me? I am going with Push only with low rpm fans on 140mm form factor radiators, so my top rad in this case is going to be a 45mm just in case I ever want to add Pull fans as down the road (60mm 140mm form factor rads wont fit in the top in push/pull) But if I was going with 120mm form factor I would go with the 60mm rads regardless of fans, as you can even go 80mm in that form factor with push/pull on top.
post #3532 of 18688
Hi there,

I've recently completed my Primoo build. It look a little ugly right now because I ran out of red tubing and had to use the clear ones I have on hand.

I'm thinking to go for acrylic tubings in the near future.



Yup... Dem ugly tubings....


2x XSPC X20 bay pump/res. Will be change the LEDs to red ones soon


360mm rads in push-pull on top and bottom


Homemade case dolly. Made from 4 castors and a piece of 600mm x 300mm laminated compressed board

I'm still waiting for the sleeved cable extensions to arrive. if you're wondering about the ugly cables.
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post #3533 of 18688
I really like your homemade dolly. Looks easy to make with the few tools I have on hand. Does it roll easily without the case moving around or, worse, wanting to slide off the dolly? Not that I'd be moving mine, but I'm sometimes an accident waiting to happen, and I do have my 17" gaming lappy that I use on our back balcony.
post #3534 of 18688
The rubber pads at the bottom of the case prevents slipping coupled with the weight of the build, I guess slipping is close to impossible.

As for the wheels, mine are 1in nylon. So far I have no problems rolling them around my room.




It real simple. 4 wheels and a few screws with a cordless screw driver. I fitted the wheels 1in from the edges.
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post #3535 of 18688
hi guys!
here's my enthoo primo!
liquid cooling by alphacool 360 monsta on the bottom and xpsc rx 360 on the top.
waterblocks are from Ek. Supremacy clean csq for the cpu and Ek-Fc Titan for the Gtx 780.

at the moment tubing are mixed : straight segment are made with ek hd tube and others segment are made using common pvc tube (masterkleer).

I will use mayhems pastel red, now I am just testing with pure water.


















post #3536 of 18688
Thread Starter 
Nice base.

May I suggest cutting out the middle so air can flow into bottom fans?

Here's what I have under mine.

.

And what it looks like bottom side up


post #3537 of 18688
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Nice base.

May I suggest cutting out the middle so air can flow into bottom fans?

Here's what I have under mine.


And what it looks like bottom side up

Nice... Where did you get that base? Home made?

I was looking for something similar until I gave up and drove to the hardware store.

I wouldn't worry too much about the airflow from the bottom of the case. there's a good 3/4 in gap from the base to the intake filters. and in my case there seem to have less air from the top fans compared to the bottom one even though they are using the same rads and fan config.
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post #3538 of 18688
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I\ve made a few. Retired from custom word work so have tools and skills. wink.gif

Yes, there is that space between filter and floor or your base. But the sides and front of base only has about as much vent area as one 120mm fan has. rolleyes.gif And that is not even considering how restrictive the stock vent mesh is.
Edited by doyll - 4/9/14 at 10:53am
post #3539 of 18688
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Nice base.

May I suggest cutting out the middle so air can flow into bottom fans?

Here's what I have under mine.

nice work mate.
It is true, the bottom fans does not have good air flow, cause of the filters and because there is very low space from the bottom of the case and the floor/desk
thats why I have to use the airbox 360 (45mm). but I am honest, I think about making a base that tilt up the case, to let the fans have more air to inhale.
but I dont need wheels because my enthoo primo is on the desk, and also I am in a place where earthquake are quite frequent so it is a very high risk biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

very very nice job mate, I will do the same base but with no wheels, thank you!
post #3540 of 18688
The WHITE Enthoo hits the shelves

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811854002


Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider49 View Post

Hi,

A few weeks ago I made my first post here saying that I was divided between going air or water on this case. Well, I've made my decision and I'm going water on the CPU for now (GPU will be added to the loop in the coming months and that'll be it).

I have been learning about WC on the web and pretty much have already decided what components I should get. So, now I have some questions for you about radiator compatibility and fans suitability.

Will the Alphacool UT60 360 fit in the top of the case in a push/pull configuration (I'm just getting 3 fans for now, but would like to add more in the future)? If not, should I consider the 360 or 480 XT45 instead?

Which one is better and by how much? UT60 in pull or XT45 in push/pull?

I'm planning on pairing the Alphacool UT60 with NoiseBlocker's eLoop B12-3 120mm fans rated @1900 RPM. Do these make a good match or not? Are they among the best ones for the money?

Cheers

The answer to the UT60 is "it depends" ..... The 360 presents less issues than the 420 in this respect but in my build, the 60 in P/P blocked many of my MoBo features ....some where installation oriented .... i.e. you have no access to 8 pin EPS cable w/o removing bottom fans..... others were blocked access to features like the LED diagnostic panel.

As to what's better.... here's all the data on most commonly used rads compiled from matinsliquidlab site

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457426/radiator-size-estimator

The UT60 will deliver a whopping 7 more watts using the Phanteks fans @ 1250 rpm.... little less as they don't actually run that high.

XT45-360 = 247 watts in push pull
UT60-360 = 254
XT45-420 = 302
XT45-480 = 296
UT60-480 = 303

As to your question ... The UT60-360 in push delivers 188 watts / the XT45-360 in P/P delivers 247 watts ..... a rad with 2 fans will always always be better than thicker rads w/ one as thicker rads really don't do anything of significance until like 2200 rpm where I'b be leaving the room because of noise. This list is basically "per fan" or "per 120mm of read" ....adding a 2nd fan in push adds around 21% in martins testing which of course will vary by fan (10 - 30%)

1250 rpm in push
ST30 - 60 watts
XT45 - 61
UT60 - 63
Monsta - 66

1400 rpm in push
ST30 - 66 watts
XT45 - 68
UT60 - 70
Monsta - 74

1800 rpm in push

ST30 - 81
XT45 - 86
UT60 - 90
Monsta 80 - 94


The real deal here is the XT45-420 ..... for one, it's like the rad was made for this case....

1. Ya can place it so the top ports are accessible from the top of the case
2. The XT45-420 delivers about the same cooling as the UT60-480
3. The XT45 ($85) with 6 Phanteks fans ($90) in push pull is about $175.
- XT45-480 w/ fans is $225
- UT60-360 w/ fans is $190
- UT60-480 w/ fans is $250

I have a 420 + 280 in push only with the Phanteks fans the case came with and it keeps the 4770K (4.6 Ghz - 74C)) and twin 780s (25% OC - 39C) at 8.4C Delta T with no filters or grilles in place.... slowing things down and adding the filters brings me up to 12,8C and GPU temps of 44C.

As for the fan question, the Phanteks fans are superb and I wouldn't think of replacing them. And 1900 rpm is a bit screamy noise wise .....I have the Phanteks fans working from about 325 to 850 rpm and they are dead silent at those speeds.

Martin site has loads of fan data but unfortunately he hasn't tested many of the new designs..... SPCR has but there test are on air coolers..... but when ya think about it, air coolers with their tight fin spacing present more of a challenge than 10 fpi rads like you and I are using.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Yeah, I\ve made a few. Retired from custom word work so have tools and skills. wink.gif

Yes, there is that space between filter and floor or your base. But the sides and front of base only has about as much vent area as one 120mm fan has. rolleyes.gif And that is not even considering how restrictive the stock vent mesh is.

Do you have any pics of the underside w/o the "Doylly Dolly" ? smile.gif

I wanna lift mine off the desk but was am thinking 4 hockey pucks or just 1 x 2's at each and and was wondering how critical placement might be. At this ppoint the thing is too damn heavy to flip.
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 4/9/14 at 1:24pm
911 Carrera
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
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Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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911 Carrera
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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