No one said it didn't do any better.....just said it wasn't a lot. The UT delivers 9 watts less or about 95% of what the Monsta can deliver
Data from the curves .....360 rads @ 1250 rpm ...1st three were martins
ST30 = 181 watts
XT45 = 183
UT60 = 188
Monsta = 197
Let's look at just martins data for a second ....
Adding 50% thickness to a 30mm rad gets us just 1.1 % more cooling
Adding 33% thickness to a 45mm rad gets us just 2.7 % more cooling
Adding 100% thickness to a 30mm rad gets us just 3.9 % more cooling
following the logic .....
So given the above, is it logical to assume that adding 43% thickness to a 60mm rad is suddenly gonna produce double digit increases ???
The reason we don't see much out of a 60mm rad as compared with the 30mm is that the air temperature changes as it goes thru the rad..... here's what's happening now running prime 95 with AVX..... measuring 23.7C air at entry is increasing to 25.2C on the other side of the rad and watertemps at 26.0 .... so with my 45mm rad it's dropping roughly 0.25C per 10mm. So....
At 1st 10 mm Delta T = 1.25
At 2nd 10 mm Delta T = 1.00
At 3rd 10 mm Delta T = 0.75
At 4th 10 mm Delta T = 0.50
At 5th 10 mm Delta T = 0.25
The radiator is 5 times more effective in the 1st 10mm than it will be in the last 10mm as the intake air warms on it's way thru. On top of that.... no matter what the fan setup you use....two fans will always push more air thru a thin rad as a thick one and this is a mass / balance equation. More air has more ability to absorb more heat tho a significant part of this is eaten up by less contact time.
I have to go back in the thread and get the original Monsta published source .... the other ones I remember cause I visit often. Never went back to the Monsta cause I couldn't make a case for it at any rpm I'd be willing to run at. I had a bunch of potential sources listed and the one I thought it was isn't it.
Martin has indicated push / pull can add anywhere from 10-30% performance difference..... I used 21% in my tables which is from the Martins 2nd link above IIRC. I will be able to conform exactly what P/P does w/ Phanteks fans as soon as I get that 3rd PCB.
With regard to your rads giving widely different results .... I had the same experience....My UT60 280 was giving me 1.3C (in to out drop) with the XT45 was giving me 1.0C ..... makes no sense right ? Took off all the fan grilles and filters and mystery solved..... now the XT45 was doing 1.3C and the UT60 was doing 1.0C but Delta T overall dropped 4.6C by being able to move more air thru the rad.
Looking at the link you used, I note the following
We see the XT45 at 7.2C on Bundy and Martin said 183 watts
We see the UT60 at 6.1C on Bundy and Martin said 188 watts
So.... either one of these tests is borked .... or 5 watts = 1.1C temp difference.
Now we look at the Monsta at 5.6C or 0.5C difference .... based upon the above, what would be the corresponding change in watts ? .... well if 5 watts gets us 1.1C, it should be safe to assume that another 0.5C would be in the neighborhood of 2.5 watts. The other sources had it at 9 watts.
Martin has the RX360 coming in 4 places behind the UT360, Bundy has the RX finishing 4 places above the UT360 ?
Martin has the SR-1 360 coming in 5 places behind the UT360, Bundy has the RX finishing 3 places above the UT360 ?
There are some obvious issues with testing in a case as opposed to a lab setting like Martins..... For one....who the heck cares if your Delta T is 5 or 6C ? I didn't build my system to accommodate a 140 watt CPU load under Prime 95 .... I built it to keep everything cool under a 700 watt load. But my biggest issue with "in case" testing is the number of variables. The fact that testing with the measly output of a CPU is barely indicative of conditions with watercooled system that have cards in SLI / CF. With in case testing, your results are inevitably skewed by the low load and cooler air temps inside the case. I'm seeing a measly Delta T of 2.3C and just 1.5C change in air temps across the rad running now with P95. How will the results change when ya have 10C air change across the rad ?
Bundy's results are interesting but in direct conflict with Martins. That doesn't make them invalid, just that I feel more comfy with the laboratory based testing that eliminates all other variables. If you are building a box for competitive OC'ing and won't be adding GFX cards, then that would be a great "go to" source.
Originally Posted by Seid Dark
So with 780 Classy bay res is the only option if you don't want to cut the res bracket? Massive disappointment. I thought Enthoo Primo was supposed to be enthusiast case but I guess they forgot about custom pcb's altogether
GJ Phanteks. Really great design work there.
I don't think ya can blame the case manufacturer for an added feature that only works with 99% of the cards out there. Take out the bracket and you have what every other case manufacturer offers and the Classy fits just fine. I have an Asus DCII w/ custom PCB and it fits like the proverbial glove.
The Asus 780 DCII is listed as 11.3" long but when ya take off the air cooler, it's only 10.5".
Newegg reports the 780 Classified @ 10.5" which should be just fine.
Newegg reports the 780 Ti Classified @ 11.0" which is doable with a little trim work
But again, the bracket is an option....it is by no means required.
The Enthoo could fit a 20.2" long GFX cards, 13.8 inches with HD cages in place which should be enough to fit most anything.
277mm (reservoir bracket installed w/o cover)
350mm (no reservoir bracket)
390mm (HDD cages in front position)
515mm (no HDD cages)
With your 11.0" (279.4 mm) Classy card ..... to keep the bracket, you'd have to shave 2mm off the side .... and drill your own res mounting holes about 5mm to the right....otherwise just treat it like any other case that doesn't provide a res bracket.....you can always mount the red off the bottom plate of the 5.25 bays
Originally Posted by kangk81
I discovered a real flaw while fiddling with the case today.
The bottom piece which holds the built in fan filters has a piece in the center that obstructs fan screw fitment. All is fine if you're only fitting a 240mm or 280mm rad there because you can slide the fan to either side of the center piece. If you're using a 360mm rad, there are 2 fan screws right next to each other which doesn't matter whether you slide it one way or the other cos once of the screws will be blocked. I remembered leaving out 1 screw when I first built the case.
IIRC, .... it's only beeen 6 months but I'm old and have CRS Syndrome ..... All is fine if you are mounting a 240 or 280 cause Phanteks gives you mounting plate thingie which puts those screws about 1/2' higher Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
CRS = Can't Remember Shi ..... er..... Can't Cemember Stuff
Originally Posted by kangk81
I'm just being fussy about not having it screwed down.
Perhaps it has got something to do with my job as an aerospace technician..... ya know.. where we gotta screw every loose screw.
Hell I can't sleep at night if my Phillips Head Screws on the fan mountings don't look like:
What .... damn it ..... looks like a tear down in my future .... gotta fix that 2nd screw from the right on the bottom. But then again it's been 5 months and I haven't done my cables yet.Edited by JackNaylorPE - 4/18/14 at 3:07pm