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SteelSeries Kana v2 Review by Takasta - UPDATED White Version - Page 6

post #51 of 846
Yeah they need to fix the color. This is just very lazy by SteelSeries. It seems for the V2 white version they just put the white top coating of the kana v1 white version on the bottom mold of the kana v1 black version, it looks bad. The problem with the LOD also seems to be the fact that they placed the Avago 3090 in the exact same mold as the Kana V1, since the custom lens was designed to lower the LOD of the crappy Pixart sensor, it doesn't have much of an effect on the Avago 3090. Another extremely lazy and irresponsible move. You would think from all the millions they make selling their flawed mice they could have the decency to invest a few thousand to fix some mistakes that can be a killer for a mouse.
I hate you steelseries.
post #52 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by emka View Post

Forest doesn't use kana v2 and he is a high sens player.

Forest plays with 400 dpi and 3.5 sens if I'm not mistaken. That is about 30cm for a 360, wouldn't call it high sens. I play with 800 dpi and 2.3 sensitivity and I still pick up the mouse allot. I think especially with high sens and claw grip you tend to use the wrist more, so you are constantly repositioning the mouse.
post #53 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

Forest plays with 400 dpi and 3.5 sens if I'm not mistaken. That is about 30cm for a 360, wouldn't call it high sens. I play with 800 dpi and 2.3 sensitivity and I still pick up the mouse allot. I think especially with high sens and claw grip you tend to use the wrist more, so you are constantly repositioning the mouse.

It wouldn't be high sens for another game, but for CS it is. Most players use between 2 and 3 (for 400 dpi that is) and there are quite a few that use even below 2. Anyway you don't necessarily need to pick up the mouse to reposition, you just buy a large mousepad and swipe from one side to the other without lifting the mouse. There's a lot of hand movement, but that's the way it works.
post #54 of 846
I don't know about CS players, but in Quake most players I have seen including myself despite having a huge mouse pad tend to lift up the mouse and reposition it in the middle. I haven't seen players who don't constantly lift off their mouse to reposition at least in Quake. In CS I understand you are guarding one angle and that's it, and there is no movement so you can play ultra low sens and not lift up I guess.
But in Quake and other games where you need to do a 360 in a second I think a high lift off distance can be a big disadvantage.

Strenx who uses 800 dpi 1.1 sens, low sens player.

And Av3k who has very similar sens to Forest.

They all lift their mice and reposition them despite the sens.
Edited by Oeshon - 8/19/13 at 6:10am
post #55 of 846
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post #56 of 846
Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

It's almost a given that SteelSeries would find some way to make a huge flaw with the mouse. I am not sure if they do this stuff on purpose so people wait for the next edition,. They usually follow the same formula when the next generation mouse comes out, they still leave major flaws.

I also don't know how Fifflaren and Forest are finding this mouse for CS, its a low sens game where you pick up your mouse allot, I wonder how the high LOD affects them. The pro players should really force these companies to make the right adjustments before agreeing to use their gear.

By how much would a red mouse pad reduce the LOD? I think it would be bearable if the LOD dropped to at least 2.5 to 3 mm.
Only Fifflaren is using the Fnactic colored Kana v2. Forest is still using the Kinzu. Side note, Hiko (Complexity) and Skadoodle (Curse) use the Zowie FK.

I forgot how much in millimeters a red mouse pad lowers LOD. I can say that the DeathAdder 3.5G has ~4mm LOD on a black cloth pad, I cannot use that, but on a red cloth I can use the mouse. I can measure it again in a few days. I think it was like 2.5-3mm.

Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuNDa View Post

Takasta, would you try this please?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1211083/tape-trick-for-lower-liftoff-distance-lod-with-optical-mice
Decreasing the LED intensity will lower LOD, but it can also lower frame rates and decrease other tracking attributes.

Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstrk View Post


is this the white version?

the need to fix the color... imo
They went with a Fnatic color scheme. It isn't really a white version.

Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

Yeah they need to fix the color. This is just very lazy by SteelSeries. It seems for the V2 white version they just put the white top coating of the kana v1 white version on the bottom mold of the kana v1 black version, it looks bad. The problem with the LOD also seems to be the fact that they placed the Avago 3090 in the exact same mold as the Kana V1, since the custom lens was designed to lower the LOD of the crappy Pixart sensor, it doesn't have much of an effect on the Avago 3090. Another extremely lazy and irresponsible move. You would think from all the millions they make selling their flawed mice they could have the decency to invest a few thousand to fix some mistakes that can be a killer for a mouse.
I hate you steelseries.
They are using the black version parts on the "white" version to decrease costs.

I doubt the plate/bottom is lowering the sensor like the Zowie mice. They are using the standard lens from what I can tell. So, the PCB will be a certain height, the correct height, unless they raised/lowered the sensor itself. Avago says that (if I remember) 0.1mm is the limit in either direction over the default height. Once you go beyond that limit the lens is out of its working/designed area.

This LOD is typical for the 3090.
Edited by popups - 8/23/13 at 8:57am
post #57 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeshon View Post

In CS I understand you are guarding one angle and that's it, and there is no movement so you can play ultra low sens and not lift up I guess.

Pretty much. You don't exactly guard one angle, but i don't often need to aim more than 90*. If you have to turn 360 for a flick shot you're usually dead anyway, so sacrificing long-mid range aiming for something like a 360 flick shot doesn't make sense. That's why cs players usually go for low sens. Of course i'm not saying a reflex shot from a cs players is slower than a quick player. I can move the mouse just as fast with a lower sens, it's all personal preference in the end.
Back to topic, a 0.3 cm LOD is acceptable, 0,45 cm like Takasta reports is exaggerated imo. I'm not sure you can adjust to this even if you're a high lod lover.
Edited by kaingosu - 8/19/13 at 8:25am
post #58 of 846
low lod makes me sick when it comes to fast circular movements. FK & AM are pure crap for clawgrippers, it just stop tracking...
the more important thing is not the HIGH LOD, it's the way you appreciate it. If you can easily adapt your liftin' when repositionning or not. Plus, it doesnt hurt your wrist like low LOD adaptation did.
Lots of players go more than 3cd when repositionning their mice, without any effect on speed or accuracy.


but damn, 4.5 is high. why Steelseries? why so much?
Edited by jouzeroff - 8/19/13 at 4:18pm
post #59 of 846
@popups; Which pad were you using currently, anyway? The selection of big red pads on the market isn't much to talk about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jouzeroff View Post

low lod makes me sick when it comes to fast circular movements. FK & AM are pure crap for clawgrippers, it just stop tracking...
IMO Zowie mice have just about optimal LOD on black pads. Any lower LOD would be stupid, though. But you must be using your mouse at a crazy angle if it stops tracking like that. Or your pad doesn't go well with the mouse

Quote:
if you want to keep selling, never do it perfect
I don't get this logic. Many people won't buy a mouse in the first place if it has big apparent flaws, surely you'd be much better off putting out a "flawless" or at least very little flawed mouse out at first and then improving over it if you want to sell.
post #60 of 846
Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by test user View Post

@popups; Which pad were you using currently, anyway?
Right now I am using a blue Hien to slightly raise the LOD on the Zowie mice. When I want maximum LOD and performance I will use the red Hien for the Zowie mice. I will not use black pads with the Zowie mice.

For the DeathAdder 3.5G I use the red Hien (due to texture) to decrease the LOD. I didn't find the blue Hien to lower LOD enough for me to want to use it over the red. I don't want to use black cloth for the DeathAdder. Which means I will not use black cloth for the Kana v2 as well.

Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jouzeroff View Post

low lod makes me sick when it comes to fast circular movements. FK & AM are pure crap for clawgrippers, it just stop tracking...
the more important thing is not the HIGH LOD, it's the way you appreciate it. If you can easily adapt your liftin' when repositionning or not. Plus, it doesnt hurt your wrist like low LOD adaptation did.
Lots of players go more than 3cd when repositionning their mice, without any effect on speed or accuracy.


but damn, 4.5 is high. why Steelseries? why so much? at this level of nonsense, I think they made it on purpose... they dont want to release the perfect mouse qo that customers will still researching and buying other SS mouses....


if you want to keep selling, never do it perfect
I doubt SteelSeries does bad things to their mice to make you want to buy another/different one later. That would do the opposite of what they want. You want to build a following for your products. When someone asks, "what is the best mouse to buy", it should be their product that is mentioned first.

I think a LOD of 2.5mm is the maximum, anything above that is bothersome. With the standard lens lift off on black cloth should be tuned for 2-2.5mm, that way when used on a certain texture it doesn't go below 1.25mm.

As you tilt the mouse the angle increases/decreases with the LOD before it stops tracking. So with a 2.5mm LOD it's ~5mm for one side to be tilted before it stops tracking. With the Zowie mice the tilt angle can be very low on certain mouse pads, which causes issues when you swipe the mouse. I think the absolute lowest LOD on red cloth would be 1.25-1.5mm. I prefer to use a LOD of ~2mm, this is why I use my blue mouse pad with some mice.

3 CDs is about 3.6-3.9mm. Which is close to what Takasta is saying. That is about what the 3.5G does. I cannot use such a high LOD with my very low sensitivity. It ruins my accuracy and reaction time.

It's funny! I was thinking the Kana v2 would rival the DeathAdder 3.5G in performance -- forgot about the LOD necessary for that. biggrin.gif
Edited by popups - 8/23/13 at 9:02am
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