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SteelSeries Kana v2 Review by Takasta - UPDATED White Version - Page 10

post #91 of 846
So any date for this release? Zowie support sucks and I will not be buying from them. Sad too cause I like my zowie am but the dpi levels suck. Hopefully this mouse delivers.
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post #92 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

I like the LOD on the FK, my only worry is that it will be hard to get used to higher LOD if I ever switch to some other mouse.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuNDa View Post

sorry, but without testing this mouse with "tape fix", this review is incomplete and the question if this mouse is good or crap still open. teaching.gif
Well ... and THIS. wink.gif
As I can't find any place to buy it yet, I still have time to find some answers to the tape trick on the Kana v2.
But without any fix to this, the mouse is completely useless to me.
A jumpy or just moving cursor when I constantly reposition the mouse is a serious no-go and ruins all other benefits of the mouse.
post #93 of 846
thanks for the review!
post #94 of 846
For those comments that are saying the Kana v2 sucks because it has the LOD of the DeathAdder 3.5G.

Yes, the tape "fix" will lower it, just like with the DeathAdder. Some mouse pads will have an acceptable LOD and others will be unusable. It should track well on some tables, maybe not glass tables... It will likely work okay with something like the IceMat.

I don't think Takasta has a very accurate way of measuring the LOD. So, stop saying it is a certain number. If anything it's ~3.5-4.2mm like the DeathAdder 3.5G. If you can live with the DeathAdder you can live with the Kana v2. The DeathAdder I have has over 4mm of LOD on some mouse pads.

Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jouzeroff View Post

Comment (Click to show)
I confirm that zowie AM on my QCK heavy (black) mousepad is barrely unsuable, I think LOD is under 1mm. I just need to tilt for less than 1mm on one side to stop tracking (I stop tracking when feet are not in contact with the pad).
so I dont want to buy another pad to make the zowie AM works. I think this LOD problem should be fixed by zowie, not by customers. Anyway, I dont like AM's switches (too hard), so I just simply dont use it anymore.


but it may be good for Kana v2 if my mousepad lower the LOD smile.gif
A mouse company can only give the mouse a range to work in. You have to choose the surface that gives you the best performance for that range. A mouse pad is a very important factor to mice.

I doubt the QCK will lower the LOD on the Kana v2. Don't be mad if it doesn't.

Comment (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PUKED View Post

It's my understanding that the tape fix only affects the light path, and doesn't decrease the illumination when the mouse is set down. Is that wrong?

On my Savu (same awful default LOD) I managed to get it <2cds, and I can't even hit the negaccel point in outerspace logger. Haven't noticed any differences in tracking at 800dpi either, although tbf I don't use my Savu much.
Technically, it does a bit of everything.

When you place an object in-front of the light's path the light has to go through or off the object. That is if the object doesn't absorb the light.

Depending on what kind of tape you use can have different results. Is it measurable enough to say don't ever do it? I don't know, I never tested it to that degree. If you don't notice anything bad then do it.
Edited by popups - 8/20/13 at 11:00am
post #95 of 846
Any news yet from SteelSeries? I was hoping for an announcement in Gamescom.
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post #96 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post


When you place an object in-front of the light's path the light has to go through or off the object. That is if the object doesn't absorb the light.

that's the misconception of how the "tape fix" works, i guess many people still have.
the original tape fix was to cover the whole sensor area with more or less transparent tape, which indeed affects the sensor alot.

the right way though is, to cover only the area which is infront of the "eye" of the sensor using NON-transparent tape.

so the "eye" of the sensor is still completly unaffected, and the spot where the sensor is looking at, is still as bright illuminated as ever, how does it affect tracking?

tape fix just cuts off the light path the "eye" of the sensor would see when the mouse is lifted off.
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post #97 of 846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thuNDa View Post

that's the misconception of how the "tape fix" works, i guess many people still have.
the original tape fix was to cover the whole sensor area with more or less transparent tape, which indeed affects the sensor alot.

the right way though is, to cover only the area which is infront of the "eye" of the sensor using NON-transparent tape.

so the "eye" of the sensor is still completly unaffected, and the spot where the sensor is looking at, is still as bright illuminated as ever, how does it affect tracking?

tape fix just cuts off the light path the "eye" of the sensor would see when the mouse is lifted off.
Depends on the lens, LED and the shell of the mouse.

The way the lens refracts light is set at a certain angle. You are placing tape in front of that path. This is why it depends on what kind of tape you use. When you block that light with tape it could change frame rates and malfunction speed.

Does the sensor get enough light to work the same? I am not sure, I have to test it a lot. I would need to solder in different LEDs and buy a bunch of mice (for their bottom shell) to find out. The DeathAdder's shell will likely not show much, if any, side effects. The AM on the other hand shows negative side effects. The Kana v2 is using a different design...

Look at how Microsoft uses the LED and shell of the mouse for their lens. This is the best way to make a mouse have a 2mm LOD and retain performance. I did something like this with my Zowie AM. The AM picture only shows one thing I did, I took the rest off because I was getting drag. Mice companies should do something very similar to Microsoft. The Kana does something far from that.
Edited by popups - 8/20/13 at 3:22pm
post #98 of 846
Actually, that won't work entirely the same. The actual image size contributes to an overall effect, 3090 being almost 2x bigger. Not to mention basic layout difference between both sensor architectures.

Logitech's original solution dating back to Mx 500/300 and used in current G400/S is more than likely the best route for the specific layout. (Around 2.5mm~ at peak, per dark surface) Of course, 3rd party solutions for any other brand were not supported by Avago. I'm not sure about Pixart.
Edited by Skylit - 8/20/13 at 4:46pm
post #99 of 846
I don't see how that is the case.

The shell of the Microsoft mice decrease the opening to the lens, light can only go to the lens or bounce off the shell. The LED/light is positioned further back from the eye of the lens to give it more angle, so when the mouse is lifted the light passes straight across the lens, like the Zowie mice (I think Logitech as well) do. This is why with the Zowie I have to add that foil piece when I take off the reflector/filter. When in the air the shell reflects the light out the front, not backwards like the DeathAdder. The Roccat Savu does (or at least it appears to) bounce the light toward the front similar to the Microsoft shells, but they still use the same lens / LED position. Also the Microsoft shell has a divider between the LED and the lens that stops unnecessary light from getting to the lens.

What Microsoft has done is give the sensor the light it needs when resting on the surface and (starts to) throw away the rest (of the unnecessary light) when you hit ~1.5-2.2mm of LOD. This is the same concept the tape "fix" is trying to achieve.

The Kana on the other hand is using a transparent bottom shell, with a very large opening, that does nothing to stop the light from getting to the lens when in the air. Maybe this will make the Kana have more LOD than a DeathAdder 3.5G. People will likely have to use 2 strips of tape, (one front and one rear) to decrease the LOD if the rear piece fails to accomplish anything. It was a cheap move from SteelSeries to keep the same bottom shell that was for the PixArt sensor.

If companies do what Microsoft did they would have to make a lens, bottom mold and position the LED differently. Yeah, it is easier to do what Zowie or Logitech did. However, I think the Microsoft way would give a more consistent LOD and better performance over magnifying.
Edited by popups - 8/20/13 at 6:14pm
post #100 of 846
I don't doubt alternative methodology, but it can/will effect other parameters regardless. My point is, how can you guarantee conformable IPS and speed/framerate, while making such changes? How limited will you be to specific surfacing?

For instance, image size vs height and lens diameter (mag) is a key role to helping reduce distance on Zowie mice. Obviously, IPS and frame feel change due to variance.

I don't specifically know ST MLT04 parameters in terms of above, but best be sure they play a part in overall lift distance regardless of alternative refraction methodology. That's not to say that alternative methods won't help, but this is one key point that has to be considered before moving on.

The other is layout which also involves above. DIP is traditionally positioned higher than SMT designs. Hence, lens design contributes to a smaller diameter of mag vs image. Coupled with refraction and..


There are likely methods to avoid all of the above, but for now, I feel as if this was the right decision. Especially in a mainstream retail market.
Edited by Skylit - 8/20/13 at 7:27pm
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