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Samsung 840 Pro 256GB vs EVO 250GB- which to choose?? - Page 8

post #71 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by klepp0906 View Post

Nein! Tbh depending on what your after. The pro and evo are close enough to call even. The pro has very marginally faster reads and writes, but the evo has newer tech and when the cacheing is used properly, it leaves eeeeeverything in the dust. Of course then your taking a slightly bigger risk with data integrity. Oh and there's also the price thing.

IMO people would be very foolish and hard pressed to justify a pro purchase at this point.

My 2c
I am a lambda user who now plays Battlefield 3-4 and uses Google Chrome...
Even if I got the money and it's nearly a 50€ difference, I took the newer because there's newer technologies!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azefore View Post

I just prioritize the MLC over TLC, it should be more like ~ instead of > but reliability/longevity matters more to me with SSDs than speed does in normal usage.
I am a lambda user who now plays Battlefield 3-4 and uses Google Chrome...
Even if I got the money and it's nearly a 50€ difference, I took the newer because there's newer technologies!
    
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post #72 of 180
What's lambda? tongue.gif
post #73 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by klepp0906 View Post

What's lambda? tongue.gif

I am wondering too:thumb:
post #74 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by klepp0906 View Post

Nein! Tbh depending on what your after. The pro and evo are close enough to call even. The pro has very marginally faster reads and writes, but the evo has newer tech and when the cacheing is used properly, it leaves eeeeeverything in the dust. Of course then your taking a slightly bigger risk with data integrity. Oh and there's also the price thing.

IMO people would be very foolish and hard pressed to justify a pro purchase at this point.

My 2c

People tend to believe TLC in EVO is much worse than MLC, there is no way to use MLC price to buy TLC:D
post #75 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdgann View Post

People tend to believe TLC in EVO is much worse than MLC, there is no way to use MLC price to buy TLC:D

explain a little bit more please... I didn't understood so much this
    
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post #76 of 180
I wouldn't say TLC is bad, but it is less durable and can't be written to as quickly due to the nature of NAND flash. TLC holds three bits in a cell with eight different voltage states:

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
111

MLC holds two bits per cell with only four voltage states:

00
01
10
11

That's why MLC typically has faster writes than TLC and SLC (0 or 1) is fastest of them all. Current needs to be applied more times to write to TLC, less to MLC, and least to SLC. Those states are determined by an electron's presence or absence in a layer of the cell. Sometimes, when being overwritten, they get "stuck" within the layer and the cell becomes read-only. Since there is an additional layer in TLC, that chance becomes exponentially more likely, and therefore its longevity is lower than that of MLC, assuming all else is equal. In addition, as the NAND shrinks, it becomes less likely and wears out more quickly (I think they wear out twice as fast when going from 20something to 10something nanometers).

However, for typical consumer purposes, that is not an issue and TLC works just fine. You'll only be able to write to the entire drive (called a P/E cycle) "only" 1000 times instead of 2500 times or so, which is at least 120TB of data for the 840s and EVOs and an entire petabyte for the 1TB EVO. By that point, the tech will be obsolete anyway and you'll have since upgraded, or better yet, ReRAM will take over.
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post #77 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I wouldn't say TLC is bad, but it is less durable and can't be written to as quickly due to the nature of NAND flash. TLC holds three bits in a cell with eight different voltage states:

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
111

MLC holds two bits per cell with only four voltage states:

00
01
10
11

That's why MLC typically has faster writes than TLC and SLC (0 or 1) is fastest of them all. Current needs to be applied more times to write to TLC, less to MLC, and least to SLC. Those states are determined by an electron's presence or absence in a layer of the cell. Sometimes, when being overwritten, they get "stuck" within the layer and the cell becomes read-only. Since there is an additional layer in TLC, that chance becomes exponentially more likely, and therefore its longevity is lower than that of MLC, assuming all else is equal. In addition, as the NAND shrinks, it becomes less likely and wears out more quickly (I think they wear out twice as fast when going from 20something to 10something nanometers).

However, for typical consumer purposes, that is not an issue and TLC works just fine. You'll only be able to write to the entire drive (called a P/E cycle) "only" 1000 times instead of 2500 times or so, which is at least 120TB of data for the 840s and EVOs and an entire petabyte for the 1TB EVO. By that point, the tech will be obsolete anyway and you'll have since upgraded, or better yet, ReRAM will take over.

120.000 GB before it dies ?
enought...
    
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post #78 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I wouldn't say TLC is bad, but it is less durable and can't be written to as quickly due to the nature of NAND flash. TLC holds three bits in a cell with eight different voltage states:

000
001
010
011
100
101
110
111

MLC holds two bits per cell with only four voltage states:

00
01
10
11

That's why MLC typically has faster writes than TLC and SLC (0 or 1) is fastest of them all. Current needs to be applied more times to write to TLC, less to MLC, and least to SLC. Those states are determined by an electron's presence or absence in a layer of the cell. Sometimes, when being overwritten, they get "stuck" within the layer and the cell becomes read-only. Since there is an additional layer in TLC, that chance becomes exponentially more likely, and therefore its longevity is lower than that of MLC, assuming all else is equal. In addition, as the NAND shrinks, it becomes less likely and wears out more quickly (I think they wear out twice as fast when going from 20something to 10something nanometers).

However, for typical consumer purposes, that is not an issue and TLC works just fine. You'll only be able to write to the entire drive (called a P/E cycle) "only" 1000 times instead of 2500 times or so, which is at least 120TB of data for the 840s and EVOs and an entire petabyte for the 1TB EVO. By that point, the tech will be obsolete anyway and you'll have since upgraded, or better yet, ReRAM will take over.

How about the chance for 3 bits complicated calculation just screw up?
post #79 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdgann View Post

How about the chance for 3 bits complicated calculation just screw up?

Entirely possible. That's where the measurement of [1 unrecoverable error] / [x bits or bytes] comes in. It applies to RAM, presumably CPU caches, HDDs, SSDs, flash drives, floppy disks, optical discs, whatever. That's typically a controller issue though. Generally it's something like 1 bit unrecoverable for every 10^14 or higher bits written, or an inconceivably large number that won't ever be much of an issue until the drive begins to die. I can't find a source or claim for the 840 series though, sorry.
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post #80 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Entirely possible. That's where the measurement of [1 unrecoverable error] / [x bits or bytes] comes in. It applies to RAM, presumably CPU caches, HDDs, SSDs, flash drives, floppy disks, optical discs, whatever. That's typically a controller issue though. Generally it's something like 1 bit unrecoverable for every 10^14 or higher bits written, or an inconceivably large number that won't ever be much of an issue until the drive begins to die. I can't find a source or claim for the 840 series though, sorry.

Only samsung is brave enough to use TLC now, so if we buy the SSD, we just believe in Samsung has high tech controller that can keep TLC be stable for years...

Actually if a controller somehow has problem, would some hardware burn or something like that? Since there is no moving part, is that as long as we reinstall a framework if the controller goes wrong (all data in nand just disappear), then basically SSD can work forever like ram?
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