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Anyone use that stupid Koolance LIQ-705 clear coolant stuff?

Poll Results: Should I start using 20-dollar-per-litre coolant or stick to water and silver?

 
  • 50% (1)
    Heed Koolance's warning, use the LIQ-705 coolant!
  • 50% (1)
    Use your head! Keep using H2O+Silver, don't fix what isn't broken.
2 Total Votes  
post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
I need to know if it's totally useless or not.

See, for two years now, I've used NICKEL fittings (black painted nickel Bitspower compressions, nickel plated Koolance QDC's) with COPPER rads and blocks, all running under 100% pure distilled water and a 9.99999% pure silver kill coil. Not a single tarnish, cloudy tube, blackened copper block, or flaking fitting to report.

It's also worth mentioning that I didn't jump like a lemming off the "lol rinse ur rads w/ vinegar feels good man" cliff that I see almost everyone going for these days. Then they wonder why their water goes turquoise and their copper goes soot black.... But that's besides the point.

Anyway, my point is I've had great success running my loop the way I do with silver and distilled water. Now, I've purchased 8 new Koolance QD3 series quick disconnects (all black painted) and I've come to the realisation that there is effectively more nickel in my loop than copper (given the fact that all my Bitspower fittings are nickel covered in black paint which may or may not degrade over time.)

I think I've been doing too much reading or something because now it seems like $19 for a 700ml bottle of 98% distilled with some sort of ethylene glycol in it is a reasonable thing to spend my money on. Deep down I know it's actually not- it's Koolance hawking their own brand name stuff on people who don't know better under threat of a void warranty; I also know that there is not enough silver in a kill coil in 3 litres of water to actually wreck anything in my current system before like 2028, and above all, since I've run all these metals together the way I have for years without any singular issue whatsoever, you'd think I'd be smart enough to discount the Koolance coolants as snake oil and move on with my life, but no.

Given all this sense I can speak with myself, there's still a little nagging voice somewhere in there that's asking "But what if you're just lucky this time? What if your new parts will push the chemistry of your loop out of balance and within a year all these parts will be written off all because you didn't heed Koolance's recommended coolant suggestion?!"

So I honestly don't know what to do. It seems I can lose really hard both ways. I'll either end up kicking myself for "trying to fix what isn't broken" by switching to an expensive coolant which may or may not cause my parts to gunk up and corrode itself, despite assurances otherwise, or I get a bunch of "told you so" responses when I decide to stick to what I know and my new parts cause my loop to go crazy and rust up like the Titanic because nickel and silver apparently do that to each other. wackosmiley.gif It's just that I think it's rare that a WC loop actually provides an adequate environment for that to happen. Flaking, IMO, is going to happen because the manufacturers don't plate their parts properly. It has little to do with chemistry and more to do with mechanical force, where the water literally erodes the thin layer of plating off the leading edges of a barb. I just don't know what to make of it all anymore. I want to enjoy my hobby not spend all my time worrying about minutiae.


What do you guys think of all this?
Edited by lowfiwhiteguy - 8/23/13 at 12:34pm
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post #2 of 9
You do NOT have to spend $20 for a bottle of distilled water that has a little bit of EG in it. You can buy feser base for $7 and it has more than enough to do 4 liters of water (says 2 liter but you don't need that much EG). Or you can buy Swiftech Hydrx for $3 which unfortunately is colored green with UV reactive stuff in it which makes me sad but those are your choices without going out and buying EG from a non water cooling source. There are also other EG additives that are in these syringes and are dyes with UV additives but again I would stay away from color and I am sure others exist besides those.

I know for sure though that you can buy Feser Base which is clear and says it can do 2 liters but surely can handle doing 4 liters for $7.

EG has many advantages and a few disadvantages.
EG:
Nothing commonly used will beet it's ability to inhibit corrosion and many biocides can cause corrosion.
It is a lubricant and can extend the life of your pump.
It is highly toxic and therefore one of the best biocides.
It is not as good as water at cooling but you are only adding a little bit.
Since it is highly toxic it is bad for the environment (but no matter how much you use it won't even compare to the amount that leaks out of cars every year so your impact is non measurable).
It very sweet and if it leaks your pets may be attracted to it and they could get sick and even die although the amount of EG is very low so they will probably just get sick.
It smells bad/odd.
It is a skin irritant.

There is plenty of evidence that not all of those silver kill coils are playing well... and just as much evidence that the nickel plating on some of these blocks and fittings is causing issue as well.

Nickel and copper are very very close on the galvanic table but silver is pretty far from them... if you have any worries about nickel and copper you should be worrying even more about the silver.

If you google kill coil and click on images you will see pictures with black coating on the blocks... This is silver oxide it is black and I doubt it had anything to do with vinegar.

In my opinion Ethylene Glycol is the absolute best way to ensure that your loop doesn't have any corrosion and that no algae ever forms.

One other things that people should be aware of is that your radiator could contain tin solder and tin is very very far away from copper, brass, and nickel so adding EG would keep even tin from becoming a problem.


Also from this thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1354432/silver-kill-coil-causing-corrosion/0_20

I like the following quote

"There is always the potential for corrosion any time you have different metals involved, period. The relevant question is, how great is that potential, and is it small enough that for most people it is not a significant factor over the length of time between changing coolant or components in your loop, and can effectively be disregarded. For the most commonly used metals in watercooling loops (copper, nickel, brass), the galvanic potentials are small but they are not zero. The potential between these and silver is slightly higher but still within a reasonable limit if you flush your loop a few times a year and don't operate under unusually high coolant temps (which would accelerate the reactions)."


Bottom line... you use EG and it doesn't matter anymore.

Also few times a year... without EG I would flush 3 times or more with EG no need to flush more than 1 or 2 times a year and even if you let it go longer not going to be an issue.
Edited by givmedew - 8/23/13 at 3:10pm
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post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Yeah nickel and copper don't worry me. It's the silver I run that gives me pause....... A dark coating on the blocks from the silver, which I actually havn't experienced but I know does occur, does not bother me because it does not impact performance. It's natural and harmless.

I don't know why every company needs to manufacture their equipment in a different metal with a different coating using a different process than the next guy. Bunch of idiots. When I graduate from my engineering programme the first thing I'm doing is designing a type of rotary fitting that isn't as delicate as a rose petal and a set of blocks, fittings and adapters all made from treated copper. If you want something done right, you need to do it yourself.
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post #4 of 9
Everyone does it for looks unfortunately. If it was a perfect world everyone would be buying copper/brass fittings like the Alphacool Fatboy. None of the water blocks would have nickel plating at all and the guy who invented the kill coil would have choked an a hamburger before he got it to market.

I just had an SLI bridge go bad. It was only in my loop for a couple of weeks but the nickel plating came off and made my loop absolutely nasty. It was so difficult to clean out. I took all the blocks apart which where plugged up with crap and corrosion and now I have been flushing the radiator for the past 48 hours and switching the fluid 2x a day until it is perfectly clear and clean.

That was my first time not running EG... I got upset that the Swiftech Hydrx got some residue in my reservoir so I said ok fine no EG. I just used distilled water and copper sulfate for a biocide.

Not everyone is going to have an epic failure like this.

Also the silver oxide coating is far from just a patina... I don't know if it clogs stuff because it hasn't happened to me but I wouldn't be happy with that.

When you are thinking about these things that can go wrong and the need for a biocide EG just seems like a no brainer. I mean how do you know what your radiator is soldered together with and how much of that solder is exposed to liquid?

Higher temps mean more problems too... this time around I was running a very high delta because I wanted to go silent. 20C nearly passive compared to my normal 5C.

ASUS ROG Australia used EG based automotive coolant in a Maximus V Formula EK build video they did.
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post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Everyone does it for looks unfortunately. If it was a perfect world everyone would be buying copper/brass fittings like the Alphacool Fatboy. None of the water blocks would have nickel plating at all and the guy who invented the kill coil would have choked an a hamburger before he got it to market.

I just had an SLI bridge go bad. It was only in my loop for a couple of weeks but the nickel plating came off and made my loop absolutely nasty. It was so difficult to clean out. I took all the blocks apart which where plugged up with crap and corrosion and now I have been flushing the radiator for the past 48 hours and switching the fluid 2x a day until it is perfectly clear and clean.

That was my first time not running EG... I got upset that the Swiftech Hydrx got some residue in my reservoir so I said ok fine no EG. I just used distilled water and copper sulfate for a biocide.

Not everyone is going to have an epic failure like this.

Also the silver oxide coating is far from just a patina... I don't know if it clogs stuff because it hasn't happened to me but I wouldn't be happy with that.

When you are thinking about these things that can go wrong and the need for a biocide EG just seems like a no brainer. I mean how do you know what your radiator is soldered together with and how much of that solder is exposed to liquid?

Higher temps mean more problems too... this time around I was running a very high delta because I wanted to go silent. 20C nearly passive compared to my normal 5C.

ASUS ROG Australia used EG based automotive coolant in a Maximus V Formula EK build video they did.


Your bridge wasn't a Bitspower C47 crystal link set was it? I use those, in red sparkle. eek.gif
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post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
So say I have been convinced that I want something with EG. I can actually source >99% pure ethylene glycol but it's about 70 dollars for one litre. So there's that. Also, there's Feser base, also, there's Koolance LIQ705. So there are options... Which method do you actually use, givmedew?
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post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfiwhiteguy View Post

So say I have been convinced that I want something with EG. I can actually source >99% pure ethylene glycol but it's about 70 dollars for one litre. So there's that. Also, there's Feser base, also, there's Koolance LIQ705. So there are options... Which method do you actually use, givmedew?

I have been using Swiftech Hydrx but I got upset with fact that it stuck me with UV Green fluid. So when I rebuilt my loop most recently I did not use the Hydrx. The SLI bridge that failed was http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_346_203_472&products_id=25783 and it failed quick... it is the tubing part that slides into the fitting that failed.

Preferably I would have bought this thing in copper/brass but there is very few options in the way of copper/brass.

I have very very old and very used bitpower sparkle compression fittings and they still look the same as day one... so I wouldn't worry about them.

That said I am planning on switching ALL of my fittings to alphacool fatboy copper/brass bare or maybe black fittings.

Not that it matters but that is how paranoid I am now! With EG there is just no way something like that would happen even if the plating failed.

I am going to start using Feser Base... I just ordered some.

Koolance LIQ705 is premixed and overpriced. You are paying for more distilled water and the shipping it takes to get 700ML all over the world.

Pure EG is expensive where I am as well... and unfortunately I can not find a source that I can buy a tiny amount. All you need is a tiny amount. Look up the hazardous material listing for some of these fluids... it is very informative smile.gif.

What all these companies are calling low conductivity or non conductive is simply distilled or deionized water. Also not that I am a scientist but I thought you wanted to stay away from deionized water in a cooling loop since it is more likely to cause corrosion. Yet I see it on the list of ingredients in many of these coolants.

These coolants are all MARKETING and BS... I find Swiftech Hydrx, Feser Base, PTNuke Cu, and PTNuke PHN to be the least BS water cooling additives imaginable. Silver kill coil!!! come on... I understand that silver oxide is a biocide but is seems to be there is a quality control issue with those coils or that they respond differently in different loops or maybe loops with high deltas I don't know but it is nowhere near the control of Copper Sulfate, PHN, or EG.

Also not that you can't mix PHN or Copper Sulfate with EG but don't there is no need. Nothing is going to be able to live inside a loop with EG.

If you decide not to do EG then I would recommend still that you toss the kill coil and add Copper Sulfate or PHN.
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post #8 of 9
Thread Starter 
Sold!

I got myself a couple bottles of this: http://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_protector/ which is a domestically available, rebranded Feser One base which yields 1.5 to 2L of coolant per bottle. Says 70% ethylene glycol on the bottle. 7 dollars per. Awesome. Next time I take my loop down I'm going to use it, and ditch the kill coil.

+rep, very helpful.
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post #9 of 9
The EG is compatible with all metals including the silver kill coil. If you want you can just top off your reservoir with the EG and you will be fine. If your reservoir is filled too high you can use a straw and put it into your reservoir and then put your finger on top of the straw and pull it out. Keep doing that until the water level is dropped enough to make way for at least 1/4th of the bottle.

I found out about the dazmode stuff from helping out a Canadian pick a water cooling package (dazmode gives it for free with the flex package). Then I was like NO WAY a source of clear high concentration EG and no dyes!!! So I had to figure out how to get it without paying dazmode a billion dollars in shipping. I found a US source of the Feser Base and was quite happy.

Also if you want your water colored I have never had any issue with food coloring and it doesn't separate out of the liquid ever. I have searched and searched and I can't find any reason not to use food coloring. Mayhems tried saying it had sugar in it on a post I made but yeh NO WAY!!! It does not have sugar in it. In the US if it had sugar it would have to specify so on the package. Besides I did a burn test on it anyways and believe me no sugar.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Anyone use that stupid Koolance LIQ-705 clear coolant stuff?