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post #11 of 16
Of course SSDs in general are quite reliable and hard wearing, otherwise they wouldn't be used as a storage media. I'm not try to say defrag your SSD and it will explode, in reality it probably won't make any difference if you do or not, but if OP takes that and and translate that into "hey ho, so I can leave this daily defrag enabled" then it's another matter.

The drive will probably last a good 5 years either way, but it could last a month, it could last 50 years, it doesn't make sense to pointlessly increase the chances of failure. Most of the advice on SSDs is based on knowledge and experience floating around from the much older stuff but it's reiterated for the sake of "why take the risk".

I personally think in general most SSDs will last LONGER than HDDs, as long as they aren't abused.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hmmm..this is what is displayed when System Mechanic detects registry fragmentation. While the consensus seems to be overwhelmingly don't defragment the SSD itself as a whole, would there be any harm done by simply following through with this tool as I always had with my HDD?

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post #13 of 16
It looks like about 32MB total in data, which isn't a huge amount. Just go ahead and defragment it. It's not going to change your performance at all really. Just don't go doing it every day. Twice a year will be more than enough, and not prematurely wear out your drive.
post #14 of 16
Haven't you asked that question somewhere before... :')

Again, you can't "defragment the SSD itself as a whole". The entire disk is scanned, that scan locates fragmented files, and you defrag those fragmented files. The advice is: do not defrag those/any fragmented files if they are on an SSD. The registry is one of those files.

Again, you will NOT see a performance increase/boost.
Fragmented files on an SSD are NOT A PROBLEM.
There is nothing to be fixed.

The ONLY reason registry defragmenters are a separate tool, is because defraggers can only defrag files that are not being used. The registry is in use when the OS is fully loaded etc, so it has to defrag the registry while it's not in use.

If you are defragging the registry of an OS which is on an SSD, you are still "defragging the SSD". Don't defrag the SSD.
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by latelesley View Post

It looks like about 32MB total in data, which isn't a huge amount. Just go ahead and defragment it. It's not going to change your performance at all really. Just don't go doing it every day. Twice a year will be more than enough, and not prematurely wear out your drive.

    My thoughts about this exactly. thumb.gif   While I personally don't think it will make any difference, it's not a big deal at all.  If you've got the pagefile on the SSD (which is a good idea performance-wise), you'll burn through much more than 32 MB in an average day in just that file alone anyway.
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearybear View Post

...I'm not try to say defrag your SSD and it will explode, in reality it probably won't make any difference if you do or not, but if OP takes that and and translate that into "hey ho, so I can leave this daily defrag enabled" then it's another matter...
I personally think in general most SSDs will last LONGER than HDDs, as long as they aren't abused.

    Understood, although I don't think a HDD would be very happy with a daily defragmentation either. wink.gif
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearybear View Post

Again, you can't "defragment the SSD itself as a whole".

    Same for a HDD.  Each disk drive (HDD/SSD/CD/DVD) is individually seen by the system as one big contiguous, unfragmentable "file."  A filesystem driver (FAT, NTFS, UDF) then mounts (loads) and interprets the data stored in this single, unfragmentable "file" into files and folders that the user sees.  The data in this "file" (think of a database) is what gets fragmented, and needs defragmented.  Which chip the SSD actually decides to store data on, and which platter the HDD decides to write the data to, is of no significance to the concept of "file fragmentation."  The purpose of defragmentation (for all types of drives) is to:
  • Reduce the amount of data the filesystem has to read just in order to identify where a file is located (think of this as reducing the number of page numbers listed in an index for a particular topic).
  • Reduce the number of calculations the filesystem driver has to do in order to decide what reads to request the drive to do.
  • Reduce the number of read instructions passed to the device in the process of reading a single file.
  • And for non-digital media (like HDDs, CDs and DVDs), reduce the amount of seeking, which is slow for devices with moving parts.
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearybear View Post

The entire disk is scanned, that scan locates fragmented files, and you defrag those fragmented files. The advice is: do not defrag those/any fragmented files if they are on an SSD. The registry is one of those files.

Again, you will NOT see a performance increase/boost.

    Not because the registry files are stored on a SSD, but because they are cached to RAM, which has very fast access times.  The story would be the same even if the registry files were stored on a HDD.
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearybear View Post

Fragmented files on an SSD are NOT A PROBLEM.
There is nothing to be fixed.

    Uh, not that simple.  The SSD (and other digital media, like SD cards and USB sticks) are just much better at coping with the problem.  The problem of file fragmentation simply has to be very bad before it can become noticeable to the user of a SSD.  This is because digital media doesn't have a head to sling around (~5 - 15 ms penalty per seek for HDDs).  However, access time still affects digital media (~1 ms penalty per read).
    File fragmentation can also make file recovery very difficult/impossible in the case of filesystem corruption.  Of course, that's what backups are for, but it doesn't help if it was a new file you were working on between backups (been there). wink.gif
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearybear View Post

The ONLY reason registry defragmenters are a separate tool, is because defraggers can only defrag files that are not being used. The registry is in use when the OS is fully loaded etc, so it has to defrag the registry while it's not in use.
If you are defragging the registry of an OS which is on an SSD, you are still "defragging the SSD". Don't defrag the SSD.

   Unfortunately not true.  It would be nice if it were that simple.  Most all files that are in use (including the registry files) can be moved (to different clusters, not always to a different folder) while in use.  Windows only protects certain files like pagefile.sys, hiberfil.sys and $Boot from access (there are a few more).  And that's all access; defragmenters just happen to be included.  In fact, defragmenters can usually defragment files that no other program can access; whether normal access is blocked by NTFS permissions, or by another program accessing it with exclusive access requested.
   The real reason "registry defragmenters" exist is because the registry is a big database.  When you delete entries, there are holes left behind in the database file, just as is left behind in a disk when you delete a file.  There are really two levels of fragmentation here.  One at disk level (your filesystem), and another at registry database level.  The registry file itself (be it NTUSER.DAT, SYSTEM or SOFTWARE) could physically be in one piece while the data inside the file is a "mess."  However, while each registry entry requires a jump to access, those jumps are done in RAM, which is very fast.  Thus, I'm not sure that there is much of a penalty involved even if the registry database is "fragmented."  I would be very interested if someone would benchmark this and prove it one way or another.
    Of much more importance (registry wise) is registry cleaning, because it can reduce the number of entries that the registry driver has to "jump over" when searching for an entry with a particular name.  Of course, after registry cleaning, you would have to defragment the registry to actually shrink the size of the registry database file, since it is a binary database with offset pointers.  Registry defragmenters basically read the contents of the existing registry hives, and write new ones, thus eliminating all the empty spaces in the database files.

    I hope that was clear enough.  It is really quite complicated in the details!
 
Edited by Techie007 - 8/29/13 at 12:51pm
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post #16 of 16
Quote:
Windows only protects certain files like pagefile.sys, hiberfil.sys and $Boot from access (there are a few more). And that's all access; defragmenters just happen to be included.

I didn't know that was the reason, ofc they're protected etc but I didn't know that it actually affected the ability to move/defrag files within the volume, but that makes sense.

Details aside, I mainly want to give a simple yes/no answer to the op; I personally think the 'if's, 'but's and technicalities are often and very easily be miss-interpreted. (and less experienced folk like myself tend to end up passing assumptions off as 'facts' biggrin.gif )
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