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# [terminated] Crazy chilled water cooling idea - Page 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by technogiant

Okay...I wasn't 100% appreciating your intentions....so your main problem in this case would be the required pump head pressure...you could over come this by placing the whole rig in the loft with the chiller and just running the cables down?...so long as your not needing to run up and down with optical media?....having said that you could run a sata cable down to a dvd drive....regardless of the sata spec I've seen a review running sata cables as long as 3 meters before problems occurred......usb has a limit on the cable length also...but believe the distance your talking of would be within spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacekRing

I want my PC in my computer room ....if at all possible.

As to head...question is...does the fact that the water goes up, and then falls back down negate the head of going up? As the weight of the water coming down is the same as the weight of the water going up.

So the static suction head (going down) = static discharge head (going up). Which basically means they cancel each other out, doesn't it. Leaving you with only the head created by the friction in the pipe. The friction head generated by 1/2" pex is 0.1415 per ft. So say 40ft of PEX gives me a friction head of aprox 5.66 ft of head in my system.....would 2x D5 pumps overcome that, and would I get sufficient flow to cool 2x 660 TI cards and a 4770k CPU, overclocked?

Or am I completely clueless on how head works, LOL.

edit:

Ok been doing some research and found a great page that describes what head is.

An article on head and how to calculate it in a closed system. But basically there are 4 types of head, static head (height), friction head (pipes), pressure head (changes in pressure, ie larger container to smaller), and velocity head.

In a closed system there is no static head (height based head), there is no pressure head in my system as well.

So all I need to worry about is friction head and velocity head. So question remains, is a pair of D5 pumps enough to get say 1 GPM with about 5.66ft of head?

Get a PMP-500, keep it in the attic with your loop, and run some power cable up with the piping, that you can attach to a molex connector.

The PMP-500 has 24feet of head pressure, which will be way more than enough to manage the high elevation. It's a loud pump, so keeping it in the attic would be good. You should put a really big reservoir, insulated very well, in the attic as well to minimize needing to refill. Make the res have as much coolant as your entire loop combined. THis way you can fill the res, prime the pump, turn on the pump and your pump will prime your loop. Since gravity is priming the pump, and it needs to pump the liquid down first, it will have no problem bringing the liquid back up.

The PMP-500 is about \$90 so it will be a lot more budget friendly than trying to use D5 pumps or DDC pumps.

Edit: You can buy a 50foot roll of insulated copper wire for about \$30. Just wire red to red, and black to black, and you can have the pump in the attic, and still be able to turn it on/off from your computer. Or you can just leave it running 24/7 in the attic.
Edited by ZytheEKS - 8/28/13 at 4:22pm
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Looked up that pmp500 pump and I think it's perfect. \$90 is cheaper then the d5 pumps I was looking at and was going to get 2 of them while this one is 4.2 GPM at a max of 24.3 ft head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacekRing

Looked up that pmp500 pump and I think it's perfect. \$90 is cheaper then the d5 pumps I was looking at and was going to get 2 of them while this one is 4.2 GPM at a max of 24.3 ft head.

Don't plan on getting 4.2GPM with your setup, and do plan on keeping the pump in the attic. That thing is ridiculously loud. After it's primed the liquid being at equilibrium will prevent the height from causing extra restriction, but tight bends are notably restrictive, and you'll have a **** ton of them in the copper coils in the bucket, pardon my French.

For the heat exchanger between the oil and the water I'd use a dielectric synthetic motor oil optimized for cold climates, and put a fan or something at the bottom solely to keep turbulence in the heat exchanger. As previously posted in this thread oil not only has a lot less thermal conductivity than water, but it also has a much lower heat capacity. This means in order to keep it working optimally you'll need the oil moving to cause turbulence. I'm fairly certain most synthetic motor oils are dielectric, and they have motor oils optimized for cold climates, so just pop something like a delta fan in there to keep the oil flowing.
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I realized I wouldn't get 4.2 GPM, but I do expect to get about half that. I also plan on attacking my h80i coarseair sink and keep using it as my CPU sink. Going to take it apart and mod it to be in line with the new system. So the pump (however tiny it is) will assist as well. And it has the built in temp sensor so I'll be able to see water temps at the processor.

For the coolant i decided to use supercool which is a premixed wetter water solution made by redlineoil. Its a special antifreeze mix that helps remove bubbles from surfaces.

Yea i was also thinking about creating some kind of turbulace in the oil to help transfer heat better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacekRing

I realized I wouldn't get 4.2 GPM, but I do expect to get about half that. I also plan on attacking my h80i coarseair sink and keep using it as my CPU sink. Going to take it apart and mod it to be in line with the new system. So the pump (however tiny it is) will assist as well. And it has the built in temp sensor so I'll be able to see water temps at the processor.

For the coolant i decided to use supercool which is a premixed wetter water solution made by redlineoil. Its a special antifreeze mix that helps remove bubbles from surfaces.

Yea i was also thinking about creating some kind of turbulace in the oil to help transfer heat better.

The pump in your Corsair unit get's around .2GPM maximum flow. It will add resistance, decreasing performance. I'm fairly certain the OEM part is the same as the Alphacool DC-LT, as it has the exact same impeller, but don't quote me on that as I may be mistaken.

You might as well tear it out. I've seen people remove the pump from their corsair AIOs before, and it doesn't look to hard. You should still be able to keep the temp sensor, and all that good stuff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS

The pump in your Corsair unit get's around .2GPM maximum flow. It will add resistance, decreasing performance. I'm fairly certain the OEM part is the same as the Alphacool DC-LT, as it has the exact same impeller, but don't quote me on that as I may be mistaken.

You might as well tear it out. I've seen people remove the pump from their corsair AIOs before, and it doesn't look to hard. You should still be able to keep the temp sensor, and all that good stuff.

Your right, I just looked it up...it's 0.11 GPM, real weak....I will pull it, I've seen pictures of the heatsink apart and it doesn't look too bad to remove it. It runs on a brass bushing, so should just pull straight out once I have it apart.

Instead of just winding a copper tube or using a beer wort coil for my water lines inside the chiller, I've been looking at alternatives....
Power Steering Cooler \$26 (Click to show)
8-1/4" Wide x 2-1/2" tall x 2-1/2" deep, tube-fin heat exchanger (might be kinda small? But fins look great though and thick, maybe 2 in series?)
Transmission Oil Cooler \$65 (Click to show)
Transmission Oil Cooler kit 3/4"H x 7-1/2" W x 12-3/4"L (bigger but not as thick)
Derale 13318 Series 7000 Tube and Fin Cooler Core \$54 (best bet) (Click to show)
25 x 16.9 x 0.8 inches - 1/2 inch copper tubing expanded into aluminum cooling fins - 10 pass system

EDIT:

Been crunching some numbers, and so far this is what I'm coming up with for cost:

Type Name Cost
\$39.99 GPU Block = Alphacool HF 14 ATI / nVidia Smart Motion Universal VGA Block - Copper Edition
\$39.99 GPU Block = Alphacool HF 14 ATI / nVidia Smart Motion Universal VGA Block - Copper Edition
\$104.00 AC Unit = General Electric 5,050-BTU Window Air Conditioner AET05LQ
\$54.26 Heat Exchanger = Derale 13318 Series 7000 Tube and Fin Cooler Core
\$84.99 Water Pump = Koolance PMP-500 G1/4 Thread Liquid Cooling Pump (PMP-500)
\$57.98 On/Off Controller = Johnson Controls A419ABC-1C Electronic Temp Controller

Total \$392.16

(note I will still look to see if I can get any deals on parts, I only took prices from where I found there. Might get better prices still, but rough estimate)

Oh and I kinda remember someone a few posts ago saying (don't remember who as I write this) I needed to get a big AC like a 10,000 BTU one. I was just wondering why, by my calculations...

my PSU is 1000 Watts....meaning the ABSOLUTE most amount of heat my PC can generate would be 1,000 watts of heat....1,000 wats converted to BTU's = 3,412....so a 5,050 BTU AC is more then enough for a computer with a 1,000w PSU no matter how maxed out you are....It will keep it at a constant temp, and I can even drop the temp while folding with my CPU and GPU's OC'd to max.

btw:
1 BTU/hr = 0.29307107 W
Edited by JacekRing - 8/28/13 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacekRing

Your right, I just looked it up...it's 0.11 GPM, real weak....I will pull it, I've seen pictures of the heatsink apart and it doesn't look too bad to remove it. It runs on a brass bushing, so should just pull straight out once I have it apart.

Instead of just winding a copper tube or using a beer wort coil for my water lines inside the chiller, I've been looking at alternatives....
Power Steering Cooler \$26 (Click to show)
8-1/4" Wide x 2-1/2" tall x 2-1/2" deep, tube-fin heat exchanger (might be kinda small? But fins look great though and thick, maybe 2 in series?)
Transmission Oil Cooler \$65 (Click to show)
Transmission Oil Cooler kit 3/4"H x 7-1/2" W x 12-3/4"L (bigger but not as thick)
Derale 13318 Series 7000 Tube and Fin Cooler Core \$54 (best bet) (Click to show)
25 x 16.9 x 0.8 inches - 1/2 inch copper tubing expanded into aluminum cooling fins - 10 pass system
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
EDIT:

Been crunching some numbers, and so far this is what I'm coming up with for cost:

Type Name Cost
\$39.99 GPU Block = Alphacool HF 14 ATI / nVidia Smart Motion Universal VGA Block - Copper Edition
\$39.99 GPU Block = Alphacool HF 14 ATI / nVidia Smart Motion Universal VGA Block - Copper Edition
\$104.00 AC Unit = General Electric 5,050-BTU Window Air Conditioner AET05LQ
\$54.26 Heat Exchanger = Derale 13318 Series 7000 Tube and Fin Cooler Core
\$84.99 Water Pump = Koolance PMP-500 G1/4 Thread Liquid Cooling Pump (PMP-500)
\$57.98 On/Off Controller = Johnson Controls A419ABC-1C Electronic Temp Controller

Total \$392.16

(note I will still look to see if I can get any deals on parts, I only took prices from where I found there. Might get better prices still, but rough estimate)

Oh and I kinda remember someone a few posts ago saying (don't remember who as I write this) I needed to get a big AC like a 10,000 BTU one. I was just wondering why, by my calculations...

my PSU is 1000 Watts....meaning the ABSOLUTE most amount of heat my PC can generate would be 1,000 watts of heat....1,000 wats converted to BTU's = 3,412....so a 5,050 BTU AC is more then enough for a computer with a 1,000w PSU no matter how maxed out you are....It will keep it at a constant temp, and I can even drop the temp while folding with my CPU and GPU's OC'd to max.

btw:
1 BTU/hr = 0.29307107 W

Honestly I'd just buy some copper pipes and do the bending manually. Those heat exchangers would be a lot more efficient but the problems is they're optimized for an active flow through them. In order to keep them functioning properly you'd need to keep an active flow through them... That could get overly complicated. See with a copper coil you could have a fan pushing the oil through the center of the coil which, done properly, will have an active enough flow to keep turbulence high enough to cool it properly.

The setup could be that simple...

Once you start using chamber and fin radiators you start coming into problems and complicating things. Complicating things inevitably will drive the price up, so even if the heat exchangers are cheaper than the copper coil, which I guarantee they won't be, getting hardware to keep them functioning properly, and mounting them properly, will add more cost.

Copper pipes are cheap.... Like \$60 for 50 feet cheap... Now I HIGHLY doubt you'll have 50 feet of coils, so... yeah...

As to the BTU to heat transfer thing: I could give you a rough explanation, but I'm sure Techno could give you a much more comprehensive analysis than I could so I'll just wait for him to answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS

Copper pipes are cheap.... Like \$60 for 50 feet cheap... Now I HIGHLY doubt you'll have 50 feet of coils, so... yeah...

As to the BTU to heat transfer thing: I could give you a rough explanation, but I'm sure Techno could give you a much more comprehensive analysis than I could so I'll just wait for him to answer.

Your probably right, maybe I'm just over thinking it...I have a tendency to over complicate things, lol.

How about I just get 1/2" x 20 ft. Soft Copper coil for \$23 at lowes and use that. I'll split the coil in half, make two spirals, overlapping, merge the ends with 1/2x1/2x1/2 fittings. This way it will slow down the water going through the pipes, by splitting it in half between them, at the same time decreasing the flow head due it having twice the pipe to go through. Since the coil will probably be the biggest flow restriction.

Or I can wrap it around the radiator itself, trying to make as much physical contact with it as possible.

As to the BTU thing, I'm probably wrong. My understand might not apply to computers, it's just general understanding of Wattage and BTU generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacekRing

Your probably right, maybe I'm just over thinking it...I have a tendency to over complicate things, lol.

How about I just get 1/2" x 20 ft. Soft Copper coil for \$23 at lowes and use that. I'll split the coil in half, make two spirals, overlapping, merge the ends with 1/2x1/2x1/2 fittings. This way it will slow down the water going through the pipes, by splitting it in half between them, at the same time decreasing the flow head due it having twice the pipe to go through. Since the coil will probably be the biggest flow restriction.

Or I can wrap it around the radiator itself, trying to make as much physical contact with it as possible.

As to the BTU thing, I'm probably wrong. My understand might not apply to computers, it's just general understanding of Wattage and BTU generation.

If it were my design, I'd but the AC units evaporator (i.e. the cold radiator) at the bottom of the cooler, lofted off the ground a little bit of course. Then put a fan on that, Silverstone makes a nice big powerful 180 fan if I'm not mistaken, then have that blow the oil up through the coil. Have the top of the coil sticking out of the oil, then as the oil flows up through the center of the coil, it will be forced to flow around them, then back down to the evap. That seems like a simple enough design, with no extremely complicated shenanigans. You can use a temp sensor in the oil to shut down the compressor like most AC units have, then dial that in to the recommended heat for whatever synthetic oil you're using, or whatever oil you're using.
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The biggest problem may well be getting heat transfer between your oil and the dehumidifier evaporator.......I'm guessing this is probably a copper pipe with mutli aluminium fin type of setup.....the oil will sort of just form a turgid layer around the evap which will be very resistant to flow through those tightly packed fins....so heat exchange will be limited to conduction through this turgid layer of oil.....using a low temp oil like Zythe suggested would help....but think this will be the cooling bottle neck.....having said that you're not pursuing extreme cooling so it may be sufficient for you...but personally I'd be happier if you had a good flow through the evap.
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