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[Techreport]Samsung mass-producing 32GB DDR4 modules for servers - Page 6

post #51 of 57
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Depend what the market want, if the future of the desktop market is faster <1TB drives, V-NAND SSD wins. If the future is larger >4TB drives(how much 4K video media creation storage do you need?) HAMR HDD wins.



In non-desktop market, I think SSD and other Flash based storage are taking over.
Edited by sherlock - 8/31/13 at 6:43pm
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post #52 of 57

http://www.www8-hp.com/us/en/images/THPProLiantMoonshot_server_closeup_Ctcm2451393761_Ttcm245108560332_F.jpg
Wonder why they did not use SSDs in their new servers?
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post #53 of 57
I never said that HDDs didn't have their place. With HAMR and patterned media, HDD density will increase for the next few years. However, you forget one major fact with increased capacity.... HDD reliability will not increase very much. Therefore, people using larger and larger HDDs will be risking more and more of their data on a single device. Of course, you can increase complexity and cost with RAID but most consumers will not go down that route. MS actually introduced Storage Spaces in W8 but I'm not sure your average users will understand parity... at least not for a decade....

The other facet is simply that consumer storage needs are NOT increase dramatically anymore. Stream media and cloud storage are mitigating consumer needs for massive storage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

And why did they? Because it's a sector that's hard to compete in and which has high costs of research for new products. None of that has any relevance on the future of Hard Drives.
If a sector has very high cost of entry, high R&D, and high manufacturing costs.... well, these factors obviously will impact the development of HDDs. Why do you think the HDD consolidate from 15 companies down to 3? There will never be MORE HDD companies than 3 now. What happens in a oligopoly? Less competition leading to less advancement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

"not a growth sector" is just postulation. You can't trust some of the recent numbers citing a sales slump because the effects of the Great Recession are still greatly affecting some markets. So consumers, for example, may just be putting their money to more central components instead. As a theory. As for 5-10 years from now, because I don't want to look like a goof, I won't speculate. Too bad others on here won't follow the example..
Great Recession ended 4 years ago. You can adjust for economic conditions though. You might not want to speculate but others are required to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

Hybrid drives were always more of a sideshow. It makes more sense to either save your money and buy an HDD or splurge for a solid state drive. And of course they got in on it, it's a high-growth sector with several advantages over HDD's. The advantages of HDD's still are 1) price per GB, and 2) Total storage capacity. NEITHER of which you've explained away by saying how SSD's will eclipse HDD's in affordability and storage size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion
Again, never said anything about SSD beating HDDs in price per GB or storage capacity. However, you are not factoring in that price per GB and storage capacity become irrelevant for most once you have enough storage for your needs. i.e. See what Intel thinks of "good enough" computing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

Wow. You really, really aren't good at arguing. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
Maybe. Let's go ask all of them.
Subjectively, how many people do you know who require 8TBs of storage? How about 6TBs? Honestly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

Not all are. And if they do stuff like game or collect or make media, they need more storage. Since you brought up Laptops, guess what someone would buy to give them more storage, excepting a internal drive upgrade? An external SSD? Uhh yeah sure. Even if those were more widespread than they are now, many consumers would pick a vastly more expensive SSD over a portable HDD?
And every time someone buys a 4TB drive they're giving the HDD industry another sale. Let's see.... about $680 for the Samsung Evo 840... times 4 is $2720 vs $180 for a 4 TB HD... equals 15.1 repeating times the cost of an HDD for equivalent SSD storage.
....cloud storage. I personally hate the trend as advance user but it makes sense for the vast majority who don't want to worry about redundancy as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

For those who can afford buying literal tons of SSD's, sure. But the market isn't just huge companies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
However, the market for high storage capacity drives IS companies though. The average consumer is not increasing their storage requirements that fast anymore. The mainstream adoption of streaming media like Netflix, Spotify, etc mitigate storage demands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockerFox View Post

I never said high performance and mobile was an advantage of HDD's.
I never said capacity was an advantage of SSDs.

Let's lot at the markets:
1) Consumers: moving to SSDs in tablets/laptops/phones. Demands for larger capacity drives is not increasing rapidly partially do to streaming media, cloud storage, and increase risk.
2) Enterprise: Performance constrained applications are moving to SSDs. There is ALWAYS bulk storage but that market is unchanged as disk arrays and SANs can compensate for the lack of larger disks. Of course larger disk would lower prices BUT it's not a show stopper.

What's the breakout trend of servers? Big Data... NoSQL, NewSQL, MemCache.... RAM and SSD-based storage are a requirement here.





Here is how the future is trending based upon all known information.... Laptops, tablets, mobile devices are shifting to NAND/SSDs obviously.
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post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post


http://www.www8-hp.com/us/en/images/THPProLiantMoonshot_server_closeup_Ctcm2451393761_Ttcm245108560332_F.jpg
Wonder why they did not use SSDs in their new servers?

It's not just a new "server"... it's a new "microservers". These use lots of wimpy cores vs few brawny cores.

Some possibilities:
SSDs would reduce power consumption BUT these modules can be powered down when idle so that negate the increase HDD idle power consumption.
The cost of SSDs are still much higher. Think SSDs are expensive? Check what enterprise SSDs costs.... I believe HP quoted me $3000 for a 600GB SSD.
The wimpy cores may not be powerful to extract the performance from the SSDs.


If they changed their microserver architecture to all modules accessing a pool of storage, then SSDs would be more likely.
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post #55 of 57
This is very exciting! Now all we need are some mainstream hexacore processors and my reasons to upgrade will be complete!
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomtomb View Post

This is very exciting! Now all we need are some mainstream hexacore processors and my reasons to upgrade will be complete!

AMD has had consumer hexacore and octocore processors for years...
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post #57 of 57
ooo, DDR4.
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