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Intel & AMD, Architectural Discussion, How Far Ahead Intel Really Is ? - Page 2

post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pound4pound View Post

AMD are ahead on architecture , as the thread heading says .
the new HSU will blow the comp away
2015 will be interesting, i see amd winning the desktop war when the hsu come out. lower price , lower wattage and better performance than intel.
AMD now have the gaming console market, and their server cpus have been a choice in many areas
I have a feeling it's not going to be that simple. Unless Intel has been sitting on its butt for the last few years, they'll have something as a competitive response. They've basically been re-spinning the same architecture for several iterations now, and I have to believe they've got something new they can release when AMD drops their HSA bomb.
     
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post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

You made a lot of good points, however the die size comparison you've made is not very up-to-date.

The Llano APU's CPU is in the K10 family, which means it uses the same cores found in Athlon II and Phenom II, which is a lot different from Bulldozer.

Further more, in one of your pictures, is the Sandy Bridge a single core, dual or quad?
I noticed how the Llano dual core is around the same size as the Sandy, but the core count of the Sandy makes all the difference.


No matter what the performance / CPU size ratios are, it probably cost AMD more to make their chips at comparable performance since:

1. They do not have their own fab.

2. According to the chart on this: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/5
AMD's 8 cores are almost twice the size of an Intel quad core Haswell which even have an integrated GPU.

There are also a few points to consider:

1. It probably cost intel much more to develop new processes since they are pushing the node change so fast.

2. Intel is already at 22nm and AMD's still at 32nm. Since a chip at 22nm takes up roughly half the size compared to the same chip made on 32nm, Intel's smaller overall die size is mainly because their more advanced process nodes.

3. If AMD have access to Intel's 22nm, an 8 core might uses much less power while greatly improving performance at the same time.

To conclude my points: Intel is ahead for a variety of reasons, but one of the main reason they are so much ahead (at least in die size and power consumption) is due to their 22nm 3-D gates.

I included Bulldozer module sizes as well, we already know that a bulldozer module is smaller than two K10 cores, the main purpose of the modular design is to reduce die space to accommodate larger on board GPUs.
A Haswell processors is based on the 22nm process while a Piledriver based processor would be based on 32nm, this difference amounts to a 45% size delta, I covered this at my closing statement saying that one of the areas where intel is ahead is the manufacturing process which allows them to make smaller chips with lower power consumption.
Another factor is the amount of cache memory, the LGA 1150/1155 processors have significantly less cache memory than their 2011 quad core equivalent which amounts to smaller die sizes.

I purposefully compared the FX 8350 to the i7 3820 because both are built on similar 32nm processes & both have a closer amount of cache memory ( the 8350 still has 6mb more), a 2600K is smaller than an i7 3820 because of the significantly smaller cache memory pool.
What makes the FX 8350 quite big is the 8Mb of l3 cache, which takes the same amount of space as two Piledriver modules/ 4 cores.
AMD's APU lineup doesn't incorporate L3 cache to save die area similarly to the mainstream intel processors which have less cache to keep the size down & to accommodate a larger iGPU.

I want to remind you that this was meant as an architectural discussion not to crown an overall winner between AMD & Intel, but to compare the core architectures at an equal footing.
Edited by TechFanatic - 9/1/13 at 9:53pm
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechFanatic View Post

I apologize if it seemed overwhelmingly dry, I couldn't figure out how to add text color.
This my first time on OCN, original post can be found here.
Activate the rich text editor in the preferences.
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