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post #11 of 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

The vast majority of this stuff comes down to personal preference, and the size of case you want to end up with.

There is no particular size or number of rads necessary for any build. The same temps can be had with a single radiator with very high speed fans as you get with 3 rads with low speed quite fans. It just comes down to how big a system you can live with and/or how much noise you can live with.

A standard popular ATX case like a switch 810 can easily be fitted with a 360 and a 240 rad. That can easily keep water temps around 7.5C above ambient temp using 1500-1600 RPM fan speeds when cooling a CPU and a high end GPU card. A second card would add maybe 5C to those temps, or faster fans could limit the increase. A larger case with space for more radiator will give the same temps with less noise or lower temps with the same fan speeds.
The thickness of radiators is often mostly determined by what can be fitted in the case chosen. An excellent policy for best results is to simply get the thickest that can fit with push pull fans, or push only if two layers of fans is not possible. The differences between radiators at normal fan speeds is very minor so it isn't something to worry about too much.

There is no real practical difference between the common tubing sizes. It just comes down to choosing a 10mm, 12mm or 13mm internal diameter. I find narrower tube looks better than wider tubing like the common 13mmID 19mmOD, or 1/2" by 3/4" size.

Reservoirs are a convenience, not an essential part and therefor there is no particular size needed. They serve no function other than to make bleeding a system easier, and have no effect on temperatures. Large ones are just a fashion statement.

A simple system that just needs to work well can be done for relatively low cost. It is when you want it to look really good or perform to extremes that cost can spiral out of control fast.

Wow, that is one of the most concise, helpful and informative posts I have read here on OCN or pretty much anywhere on the internets. REP for you sir, REP indeed.
While I may not agree completely with every detail of it, you leave room for differences of opinion on personal preference anyway.

Well done. Bravo, sir!
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noviets View Post

You have 3x 450ml res's? How much res volume do you need in ratio of your loop?
Should you have equal res size to what your loop holds?

I've noticed alot of people say different sized tubing for different hardware/waterblocks, would this not create a restriction in the water flow to reduce the size of the tubing?

Are bigger tubes/wider fittings always better, or is it simply based on the flow rate of your radiator+pumps?

Is having multiple pumps always helpful to maintain flowrates? At what point should you invest in a 2nd or 3rd pump?

Is it a good idea to have seperate loops for CPU and GPU's or one loop with multiple radiators between components?

haha, no the name of the res is the EK x3 450ml. Not 3 res's. it is a huge res and I could probably fit 3 in my refrigerator size case but one is enough.

The size of the tubing really doesn't affect restriction enough to worry about. Just go with whatever is your personal preference and looks best to you.

I use big tubes and fittings because my case is huge and I think small tubing would look funny. It might work for you though.

I only use a mcp35x2 because my loop is so huge. I have 4 radiators, 2 blocks on the mobo, cpu block and 2 hydrocopper blocks. it's a lot of components to go thru. I might not even need 2 but I can run them both at about 20% and I don't hear them at all.

I would just have one loop especially for your first time. it could get confusing with 2 and is mostly unnecessary except for maybe a very tiny percent of situations. I have one loop for everything and it works fine.
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post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Is faster flow always better? I assume there would be a point where the flow going past a certain point would do more harm than good? Moving it too fast through the radiators not giving time to cool?
How would you tweak the speed of the pumps for the right flow rate?

Is it a good idea to go CPU>Rad>Res or CPU>Res>Rad
My thinking was, the res would cool the liquid before going to the radiator by a few degrees, assuming the res liquid would always be cooler than liquid from the cpu.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think like this, for standard overclocking a 240 rad will be alright, aswell as say 2x 360 rads, The only difference between the two setups is that the larger rad setup has a higher volume which allows much better cooling for higher overclocking. So I can just stick as many rads as I can fit, and then when I get the water blocks I can add them to the loop, and possibly get more pumps.

I have a question about the flow again, Is there a way to check your flow rates at certain parts in your loop? Like after the rads and stuff to see if additional pumps are needed?
post #14 of 18
There is no such thing as too high a flow rate, it just doesn't work like that. It has been shown in lots of testing that once a flow rate of around 4 litres a minute is reached, that increasing flow brings increasingly smaller temp improvements, but that is all. In normal loops there will come a point where increasing the flow rate further actually puts more heat into the system because the pump has to work harder, than the improvement that higher flow brings. Each loop is different but normally a flow rate of between 4 - 6 LPM is ideal.

Pumps either have built in controls in the case of the D5 Vario, or PWM control that can be connected to a motherboard fan header, like the Swiftech 35X, or can be voltage controlled with some sort of fan/pump controller like the basic 355 series pumps.

The res only keeps a good supply of water ready for the pump so it does not run dry, and traps air to get it out of the system. It has no cooling function at all. Its common for people to think that the order of components is important in a loop. Often people think it important to put a radiator before each water block or something similar. Water cooling works differently than that. The water temp of the loop is relatively even along its length and the whole water volume increases in temp when the system is put under load. As such loop order is of no real importance, as long as the reservoir is before the pump to keep water supplied.

Flow meters can be used to give a good approximation of flow rate. More than one in a loop is pointless though, the flow rate at the start of the loop is exactly the same as it is at the very end. It is not possible for it to be different.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 9/8/13 at 1:27am
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post #15 of 18
Also, for each pump there is a unique relationship between pump pressure and flow rate of loop. You can plan out your loop and see what kind of a pump you need before you buy your components. 4LPM is approximately 1GPM, and it is the optimal flow rate you should be aiming for.
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post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Often people think it important to put a radiator before each water block or something similar. Water cooling works differently than that. The water temp of the loop is relatively even along its length and the whole water volume increases in temp when the system is put under load.
But wouldn't the rad before a component knock a few degrees of the liquid, especially coming from something hot like CPU>GPU?

I was thinking the same with the rads after the components, and one between the GPU's.

So you're saying that CPU>Rad>GPU>Rad>GPU>Res>Pump>Rad is the same as CPU>GPU>GPU>Res>Pump>Rad>Rad>Rad
For temps on each of those components? I thought the liquid nearing the end of the loop would be substantually hotter?
post #17 of 18
Not the same, but very close. At a flow rate of 1 GPM 250 watts of heat will increase water temp by about 1C. Two high end GPU's running something like furmark will increase the water by about 2C.
At the same time, depending on how much radiator is being used and the airflow through them a cooling loop will increase to something like 10C or more above ambient temp as a whole.

In your example above CPU>GPU>GPU>Res>Pump>Rad>Rad>Rad, the first GPU would be less than a degree warmer and the second GPU maybe 1.5C higher than in the CPU>Rad>GPU>Rad>GPU>Res>Pump>Rad, loop at maximum heat output. Normal loads like gaming the difference will be smaller. That is assuming perfectly even distribution of radiator space between components. An average loop with different size rads in different places, the difference will be smaller.

Interspersing rads into a loop does make a difference but it is much more minor than it would seem at first glance. In normal ATX builds its mostly easier to have rads mixed in to the loop where they best fit anyway, but worst case as long as flow rate is good enough it does not matter much.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 9/8/13 at 8:40am
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post #18 of 18
In the end, loop order does not matter, you will reach equilibrium. In a multiple GPU setup, one GPU will always be a little warmer.
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