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Relation GPU has with CPU *Answered*

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
I've been having a discussion on another thread about the relationship GPU's have with CPU's. ANd I wanted to start a new thread instead of hijacking the other one. I would like to keep any explanations as simple as possible, so that the level of understanding can be comprehended as easily as possible.

My question is this, in reference to CPU bottlenecking.

Will a stronger GPU require less or more *work* from the CPU during gaming?

And adversely, will a weaker GPU mean that the CPU has to work harder or lesser to run a game?


As an example of what I mean, I personally have 2 AMD Radeon HD 6850's in crossfire with an FX-8120 CPU Clocked at 4.5Ghz.
The other member "will" have the same FX-8120 with 2 AMD Radeon HD 7850's.

This member is concerned about bottlenecking his CPU if he purchases the 2nd 7850 and runs crossfire.

I mentioned that my CPU does not see any botlenecking from gaming with my 2 6850's. But another 3rd member stated that my 6850's were weaker than the 7850's, and I'm presuming he means that having 2 7850's would, in fact, introduce CPU bottlenecking.
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post #2 of 41
To answer your questions:

Will a stronger GPU require less or more *work* from the CPU during gaming?
None of the above. A stronger gpu will require the same amount, not more, and not less, work from a cpu, provided the games graphics settings are the same

And adversely, will a weaker GPU mean that the CPU has to work harder or lesser to run a game?
A cpu will always work the same amount of data in a game regardless of what kind of gpu you have, as long as the game's graphic settings are the same.


To clarify, this is an example:

RIG 1: i7 3770K with GTX Titan
RIG 2: i7 3770K with Geforce 9600GT
RIG 3: Athlon X2 with GTX Titan
RIG 4: Athlon X2 with Geforce 9600GT

Game: Crysis 3
Settings: High Preset with 4xAA, 1920x1080

RIG 1 has no bottleneck
RIG 2 has a GPU bottleneck
RIG 3 has a CPU bottleneck
RIG 4 has no bottleneck


RIG 4 cannot run the game properly at that high setting, but that doesnt mean it has a bottleneck.
Both the dualcore athlon and 9600GT are balanced with each other.

CPU will always compute the same amount of work as compared to having a faster gpu,
provided the graphics settings of the game on both systems remain the same
(ex: 1080p resolution, textures high, shadows on, 4xAA, etc.).
Now if your cpu is too slow and not fast enough to run a game at a given graphics setting, you will have a cpu bottleneck.


1. Negligible Bottleneck: A system that provides enough fps to a user which doesnt affect the playability of the game.
2. Unplayable Bottleneck A system that cant manage a constant/continuous 30 FPS

RIG1: i7 3770K with GTX TITAN
RIG2: FX4100 with GTX TITAN
RIG3: Sempron with GTX TITAN

Lets assume RIG 1 outputs 100 FPS in Crysis 3, while RIG 2 only outputs 60 FPS.
There is a big cpu bottleneck, but without looking at the FPS counter, the user wont even feel the difference while playing on both systems.
RIG 3 has an unplayable cpu bottleneck because the gpu cant even utilize half of its power to output 30 FPS. The Sempron is too slow to keep up and feed the data needed by the GTX Titan


Hopefully the people who read this will finally understand the word "bottlenecking"
Edited by edalbkrad - 9/5/13 at 12:14pm
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post #3 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalbkrad View Post

To answer your questions:

Will a stronger GPU require less or more *work* from the CPU during gaming?
No, a stronger gpu will require the same amount, not more, and not less, work from a cpu, provided the games graphics settings are the same

And adversely, will a weaker GPU mean that the CPU has to work harder or lesser to run a game?
A cpu will always work the same amount of data in a game regardless of what kind of gpu you have, as long as the game settings are the same.


To clarify, this is an example:

RIG 1: i7 3770K with GTX Titan 6GB
RIG 2: i7 3770K with Geforce 8400GS 512MB

The i7 will always compute the same amount of work as compared to having a faster gpu,
provided the graphics settings of the game on both systems remain the same (ex: resolution, textures high, shadows on, etc.).
Now if your cpu is too slow and not fast enough to run a game at a given graphics setting, you will have a cpu bottleneck.

Hopefully the people who read this will finally understand the word "bottlenecking"

Thank you. That helps a ton. I was not trying to say anyone was right or wrong in our other discussion, just to clarify what actually happens.

This is a great help, easy to understand. I thank you, again.
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post #4 of 41
The ol bottlenecking concern. Well honestly there are a good bit of factors that come into play and it's hard to just blanket statement all of them.

If you have a strong gpu it will render the 3D frames faster forcing/needing more info from the cpu. It's fairly easy to see this relationship by just playing with resolution and watching usage % for each gpu and cpu cores.

It depends on application/game due to how many threads can it be run at which determines how many cores can assist in delivering data to the gpu.

So to try and not generalize too much and answer your questions.

Yes a stronger gpu requires more work from the cpu if it is capable and able to deliver more. In that if a weaker gpu is used teh cpu will typically be used less and you will notice lower cpu usage while gpu usage is maxxed.

Will a 8120 bottleneck 7850 CF, rarely depending on application, will there be instances of it of course.

A big wrench is single threaded apps as well still.

You have to factor in resolution, 3D settings that require gpu horsepower, AI needs in games that require cpu horsepower, ability to be multiple threads or ran as a single thread only and various other chores your system is doing.


Hope I helped a bit. Bottlenecking is always such a fun issue to address. WHen you are curious just watch your % usage and you can see how it relates and what factors can change what.
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post #5 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7racer View Post

The ol bottlenecking concern. Well honestly there are a good bit of factors that come into play and it's hard to just blanket statement all of them.

If you have a strong gpu it will render the 3D frames faster forcing/needing more info from the cpu. It's fairly easy to see this relationship by just playing with resolution and watching usage % for each gpu and cpu cores.

It depends on application/game due to how many threads can it be run at which determines how many cores can assist in delivering data to the gpu.

So to try and not generalize too much and answer your questions.

Yes a stronger gpu requires more work from the cpu if it is capable and able to deliver more. In that if a weaker gpu is used teh cpu will typically be used less and you will notice lower cpu usage while gpu usage is maxxed.

Will a 8120 bottleneck 7850 CF, rarely depending on application, will there be instances of it of course.

A big wrench is single threaded apps as well still.

You have to factor in resolution, 3D settings that require gpu horsepower, AI needs in games that require cpu horsepower, ability to be multiple threads or ran as a single thread only and various other chores your system is doing.


Hope I helped a bit. Bottlenecking is always such a fun issue to address. WHen you are curious just watch your % usage and you can see how it relates and what factors can change what.

Thank you, as well. This does help give a bit of depth to the statement of "bottlenecking". So it is much appreciated.
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post #6 of 41
i updated my first reply to make it more clear for others who might read this thread
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post #7 of 41
What about??

RIG 1: i7 4770K with SLI GTX Titan
RIG 2: i7 3930kK with SLI GTX Titan

will i get cpu bottleneck in those two?
post #8 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalbkrad View Post

i updated my first reply to make it more clear for others who might read this thread

Much appreciated.

My statement in the other thread was, in fact, mistaken. But this clears things up very much.

The information I needed has been addressed. You guys are free to discuss as you wish.
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post #9 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliteReplay View Post

What about??

RIG 1: i7 4770K with SLI GTX Titan
RIG 2: i7 3930kK with SLI GTX Titan

will i get cpu bottleneck in those two?

no answers?
post #10 of 41
You're talking about a Bulldozer which is crappy. And he wants to play Total War series (any of them) which is very cpu-dependent being a RTS (But not blizzard-level)

It's very simple really. You get a bottleneck

This is true definition of bottleneck :
Rig 1 : A6-6400k + Titan
Rig 2 : 3570k + Titan
Rig 3 : A6-6400k + 6850
Rig 4 : 3570k + 6850

Rig 1 is bottlenecked by the CPU. Why? The CPU has to process all the data that the game wants and higher framerates result from a lower quality setting and that higher framerate requires the CPU to process more data
Rig 2? No bottleneck. It's powerful enough
Rig 3 & Rig 4 is not bottlenecked because the GPU is not powerful enough to run games with such high framerates that the game will require more data from the CPU
Edited by DaveLT - 9/5/13 at 10:54am
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