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[TheGuardian] US and UK spy agencies defeat privacy and security on the internet - Page 10

post #91 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

I really cant understand you at all across these threads please explain your basic position because every time you post something its tantamount to trolling going for the hardest opposing stance for attention, unless you work or want to work for these organizations?

I have tried on numerous occasions... to explain to you the nature of these programs. You continue to fail to understand me. If you can't win an argument, stop trying to look smarter by calling anyone a troll. You don't know what a troll is, nor have you ever experienced being trolled in any intellectual manner as you mis-label things left and right. So do me a favor and refrain from posting in any pseudo-political thread as you clearly lack the maturity to participate in one.
Quote:
with regards to said other governments not being so lax .. yea because if someone did that over there they would be dead by now ! The thing about a democracy is that there should be a high degree of transparency in office .. nothing to fear nothing to hide right ?

Why are you talking about anyone dying? You don't even know anything about Government's infringement on our liberties, as you are clearly under the delusion that the U.S. Government has the intent of killing innocent Americans.
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post #92 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunreeper View Post

Wut? When you give someone this much power it can easily be abused.

Yeah. Guns. Hmm... But I'm not gonna say anything further. It's just that your argument is weak. There are plenty of arguments that offer a far more "legitimate" point of view. Yet, I have not seen any Forum member post them. Which is why I gave up at trying to explain anything to this crowd. You guys simply pick the wrong fights.
Quote:
I hate this stupid argument why should I have to give up my privacy for doing nothing wrong? What happened to being innocent until being proven guilty? There's probably a lot more we don't know that's going on regarding this issue and a lot of it's probably way worse. If you just blindly accept whatever the government does without some cynicism or knowing when they should stop then it's going to turn into the government we've seen in 1984. Power corrupts it's been seen everywhere just look back at history.

Regardless of us being a prime suspect of the governments just remember big brother is watching you.

Not even remotely true. Actually read 1984.
Quote:
Power corrupts it's been seen everywhere just look back at history.

Seriously? Can I say, "With great power comes great responsibility" then?
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post #93 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

its obvious that there will not be any actual evidence for this otherwise we would have revolted or they would have covered it up already and they guys responsible would disappear from the face of the earth along with what other government conspiracy.

government controlled media..... we be welcoming the next hitler, mao or kim jong il

how would you like a rigged presidency election where the current president would have already eliminated the competition after bugging the opposition or blackmailing them for minor internet crimes or what not. or maybe you lose your freedom of speach and free will for fear of repercussion or lose your ability to protest against government wrong doing

I'm in the "its not your business to know club" so for those in the "nothing to hide club" why dont you start by disclosing your most intimate secretes on this very public forum since you have nothing to hide and since the government knows about it along with every other major internet companies, telco, facebook etc because eventually it will become public knowledge at this rate

seriously is this logic? "i am going to make an unfounded assumptions and declare them as fact, based on the worst possible scenario, with zero evidence then self-righteously declare myself a freedom fighter."
Quote:
why dont you start by disclosing your most intimate secretes

what does my personal info have to do with your indefensible claims? oh right nothing, just like your post provides zero warrants and is basically a rambling, barely coherent, list of vague accusations. but hey that's how being a tinfoil hat works-logic and a basic level of support for one's beliefs are totally antithetical to it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krahe View Post

Snowden has evidence, look whats happening to him.

yeah he does on the SCOPE of these programs. don't you think if he actually had some of the info that tinfoil hats love pulling out of their butts on these programs, he would have actually released it? especially since it would seemingly be the worst examples of abuse, and his stated intention is to be a whistleblower?
Edited by perfectblade - 9/7/13 at 6:26am
post #94 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

seriously is this logic? "i am going to make an unfounded assumptions and declare them as fact, based on the worst possible scenario, with zero evidence then self-righteously declare myself a freedom fighter."
what does my personal info have to do with your indefensible claims? oh right nothing, just like your post provides zero warrants and is basically a rambling, barely coherent, list of vague accusations. but hey that's how being a tinfoil hat works-logic and a basic level of support for one's beliefs are totally antithetical to it
yeah he does on the SCOPE of these programs. don't you think if he actually had some of the info that tinfoil hats love pulling out of their butts on these programs, he would have actually released it? especially since it would seemingly be the worst examples of abuse, and his stated intention is to be a whistleblower?

Tbh we don't know what he has, atm he is trading information just to survive, he's in his 20's? He's better have another 60 years worth of stuff, what did he trade to Russia for the 12 month visa?
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post #95 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunreeper View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

What harm are you doing in which case they'll even consider searching for you?

common problem: People think this is about them. Its not.

Its about the ability to skank worthy companies out of contracts through interceptions and go for highest offers. Its about paying big money for information on individuals and companies. Its about nailing a potential political threat to the wall before they even get started. Its about shaping the entire future world political landscape (given commonwealth countries involvement) to never change and never progress for the working man and only benefit the rich and powerful.

this is very little to do with an individual citizens privacy or data, most sensible people get this. Its happening now and 'could' get worse, I don't know if you have or intend to have children but if things like this keep going unchecked they will grow up in a already fast changing world and perhaps not one that is actually better

Well, you must be the governments little tool for their own personal agenda. See, what most people don't understand is collaboration. You, as a people, vastly out number a couple people that are political figures. The army, work groups, engineers, scientists, etc., vastly outnumber those who are clinically psychotic into wanting to control the vast majority of people. Unless you share the education of the mindset of Germany back in the 30s, you're not at threat of government agencies designed to protect the people by monitoring people who pose an actual threat. Likewise, since they are in a different house, one branch can enforce the other to eliminate their power.
Wut? When you give someone this much power it can easily be abused. I hate this stupid argument why should I have to give up my privacy for doing nothing wrong? What happened to being innocent until being proven guilty? There's probably a lot more we don't know that's going on regarding this issue and a lot of it's probably way worse. If you just blindly accept whatever the government does without some cynicism or knowing when they should stop then it's going to turn into the government we've seen in 1984. Power corrupts it's been seen everywhere just look back at history.

Regardless of us being a prime suspect of the governments just remember big brother is watching you.

Protip, your 'privacy' has been capable of being compromised for a very long time. Problem is, is that the government is just not interested in spying on you because you just aren't important; nor probably a threat to national security or the world in general. Maybe the states isn't as well protected as Canada, but we stop these 'terrorist attacks' long before they occur unlike our neighbours. We also employ the 'War Measures Act' much more ethically whenever we have a national threat to the elected power. Frankly, of course it can be abused, but the nation would fall into the same problem like Germany did in the 30s if they are educated enough to not be incompetent. Just like you, the NSA can easily be watched and followed by those other branches that fund them.

"Big brother" must be very scary. They (Big Brother), CSIS kind of saved our arse from numerous terrorist attacks but, unlike other nations in question, don't plaster secret services all over the media to stroke their egos. Likewise, many years before that, "Big Brother" stopped a country falling into a division between two different powers, one elected by the people and the other using terrorism to gain theirs. "Big Brother" took our rights away, but "Big Brother" kept Canada unified and in a much better state then those crazy amurikurns that like to be deluded as so. Guess what, you just aren't important. rolleyes.gif

To be frank, just because your privacy can easily be evoked does not mean that it is. Your neighbour could spy on you; but don't go off and state that your rights and freedoms are in oppression, and go all over-dramatic as your neighbour can watch you through his windows and invade your invade your privacy covertly. Oh no! Not only is big brother watching you, your neighbour could be too! Watch yourself sunreeper, your neighbour might be apart of 'Big Brother' too. eek.gif

Call me naive, but I like have terrorist attacks taken out long before they occur. I like having a unified country. I like having economic and political stability. I also like a nation where the people and ones in power are also ethically bound to a system of 'right and wrong'. I don't mind that they can easily spy on me, they just need reason to do so. Since there is no reason, I will continue to enjoy the nation I live in and be protected from the others that actually abuse this power because of their political system. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

its obvious that there will not be any actual evidence for this otherwise we would have revolted or they would have covered it up already and they guys responsible would disappear from the face of the earth along with what other government conspiracy.

government controlled media..... we be welcoming the next hitler, mao or kim jong il

how would you like a rigged presidency election where the current president would have already eliminated the competition after bugging the opposition or blackmailing them for minor internet crimes or what not. or maybe you lose your freedom of speach and free will for fear of repercussion or lose your ability to protest against government wrong doing

I'm in the "its not your business to know club" so for those in the "nothing to hide club" why dont you start by disclosing your most intimate secretes on this very public forum since you have nothing to hide and since the government knows about it along with every other major internet companies, telco, facebook etc because eventually it will become public knowledge at this rate

seriously is this logic? "i am going to make an unfounded assumptions and declare them as fact, based on the worst possible scenario, with zero evidence then self-righteously declare myself a freedom fighter."

hha, you are awesome good sir!
Edited by Domino - 9/7/13 at 6:52am
post #96 of 140
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post #97 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

what does my personal info have to do with your indefensible claims?

point proven... didnt you say you have nothing to hide, may as well let the cat out of the bag. your government knows about it already anyway

just because you cant see it or know about it doesnt mean it isnt there
Edited by akromatic - 9/7/13 at 7:19am
post #98 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krahe View Post

Tbh we don't know what he has, atm he is trading information just to survive, he's in his 20's? He's better have another 60 years worth of stuff, what did he trade to Russia for the 12 month visa?

russia already offered him asylum, ironically, under the condition that he stop releasing info (they said this under pressure from the us). realistically, he could probably grab russian asylum any time he wanted, since I doubt they actually care about this issue in the first place. so really he has zero motivation to not release info about such abuses if they existed.
post #99 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

russia already offered him asylum, ironically, under the condition that he stop releasing info (they said this under pressure from the us). realistically, he could probably grab russian asylum any time he wanted, since I doubt they actually care about this issue in the first place. so really he has zero motivation to not release info about such abuses if they existed.

So, now you know all of Snowden's motives and reasons?rolleyes.gif

People are trading rights for a false sense of security. Good job America! thumb.gif
 
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post #100 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

what does my personal info have to do with your indefensible claims?

point proven... didnt you say you have nothing to hide, may as well let the cat out of the bag. your government knows about it already anyway

just because you cant see it or know about it doesnt mean it isnt there

Just as such logic holds value too, "because you can't see it, nor know of it's existence, also doesn't mean it exists." Innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean you aren't guilty. Just because you could be spied upon does not mean you will be.
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