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[The Verge] Most common encryption protocols are useless against NSA surveillance, new leak reveals - Page 3  

post #21 of 75
Hi All,

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So ummmmm what happened to this? Does everybody really think the introduction of electronic DOCUMENTS has changed the meaning, spirit, or intent of this?

Again I ask the simple question, while the gov is protecting me fom me, who is protecting me from them?
    
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post #22 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by preachp View Post

Hi All,

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So ummmmm what happened to this? Does everybody really think the introduction of electronic DOCUMENTS has changed the meaning, spirit, or intent of this?

Again I ask the simple question, while the gov is protecting me fom me, who is protecting me from them?

I'll use the same analogy.

You drive to work in the morning, you see police at the corners with their speeding cameras. They're not tracking you, they're not following you, they're not keeping tabs no you. You are just one of many cars/or packets (internet)

The police officer is just looking at his little screen waiting until he sees a number pop up like a "70" on a 55pmh road. THAT is when the police officer takes notice and does he has to do.

Ideally, this is how the NSA "surveillance" is happening. Ideally....


Should we flip out if USPS has sensors that scans our snail mail for biological contaminants ?? They aren't looking for your mail, they're looking for specific characteristics.
Edited by lacrossewacker - 9/6/13 at 6:38am
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post #23 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by source 
In one 2006 incident, the NSA even became sole editor of an encryption standard, able to insert backdoors and workarounds at will. The resulting code was often suspected of government tampering, but never proven until now

Still not proven. Just because it's not the most effective or efficient at something, doesn't mean backdoors and workarounds were inserted. There's an article on Ars about this very thing, it is not about a backdoor or workaround. Sensationalist reporting, at best...http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/the-nsas-work-to-make-crypto-worse-and-better/

I had a lot more to say, but thought better of it so I deleted everything else...
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post #24 of 75
I think this is blown out of proportion...any one in the world could break HTTPS or SSL encryption. You just would need a crazy amount of processing power to do it in any realistic duration of time. The same with the malware that captured stuff before it got encrypted. That is one of the more popular ways to actually do a hack. Though I will give that it is very annoying that the NSA was actually making this crap that infests our Internet. There are enough sources of it, we don't need our tax dollars making more.

The only parts that are actually troubling is how they were putting back doors into security protocols...I would really like to read all the detail on that, but I think it is likely that every encryption method has a back door for the developer to troubleshoot and test it. Though this sounds like it might be much more than that.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 9/6/13 at 6:43am
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post #25 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Ideally, this is how the NSA "surveillance" is happening. Ideally....

But we know this isn't the case.

They have to record masses of information, much of it they probably should not even have access to, and they can then go through that information for details far outside their original purview.

What's actually happening, or what could easily happen on someone's whim, is far closer to what's explicitly prohibited by the 4th Amendment than to your ideal police with the radar gun analogy (which is overly idealized even when it comes to police themselves).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

I think it is likely that every encryption method has a back door for the developer to troubleshoot and test it.

Not open source ones that are actually reviewed by a large community with access to the source.
Edited by Blameless - 9/6/13 at 6:47am
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post #26 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

But we know this isn't the case.

They have to record masses of information, much of it they probably should not even have access to, and they can then go through that information for details far outside their original purview.

well, it has to go through all those different mediums to cover all aspects.

If I was a terrorist and knew the NSA was watching Facebook, gmail, skype, yahoo mail, and all the other wireless carrier networks, then my buddies and I are just going to use the digital medium that hasn't publicly already been leaked as "guarded"

I'd preferably have an agency that scans our information for "terrorists" rather than for ADVERTISING....
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post #27 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

But we know this isn't the case.

They have to record masses of information, much of it they probably should not even have access to, and they can then go through that information for details far outside their original purview.

What's actually happening is far closer to what's prohibited by the 4th Amendment than to your ideal police with the radar gun analogy (which is overly idealized even when it comes to police themselves).

exactly, in lacrossewacker's analogy, the cop would have to be watching you invisibly and can get you for speeding no matter where you are any time of the day.

and then if he didn't catch you that day, he could go back and say hey you were speeding on this day and ticket you.
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post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

exactly, in lacrossewacker's analogy, the cop would have to be watching you invisibly and can get you for speeding no matter where you are any time of the day.

and then if he didn't catch you that day, he could go back and say hey you were speeding on this day and ticket you.

well, if it's targeting terrorists...that's perfectly fine sounding to me...

I can see all the horrible ways to abuse this, but assuming it's kept in check (with the right gov't), it can also be one of our BEST defenses. Just like a gun. I could use it save my family, or I could shoot a baby...
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post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

well, if it's targeting terrorists...that's perfectly fine sounding to me...

I can see all the horrible ways to abuse this, but assuming it's kept in check (with the right gov't), it can also be one of our BEST defenses. Just like a gun. I could use it save my family, or I could shoot a baby...

this "system" WILL do more harm than good, mark my words.

this will all end terribly...

and a gun is only as harmful as the person holding it.

the NSA system is automated, the system decides whats right and wrong.
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post #30 of 75
The same information gathering and analysis capabilities that can allow the NSA to be effective at it's mandate are exactly the same capabilities that could be used to arbitrarily violate everyone.

You can't have one without the other, so I would rather not have any of it.
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Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
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Primary
(15 items)
 
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In progress
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4.3/3.6GHz core/uncore, 1.225/1.2v Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion (F22n) 2x Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC New Edition (10036... 4x4GiB Crucial @ 2667, 12-11-12-27-T1, 1.37v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Plextor M6e 128GB (fw 1.05) M.2 (PCI-E 2.0 2x) 2x Crucial M4 256GB 4x WD Scorpio Black 500GB Cooler Master Nepton 280L 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 BenQ BL3200PT Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (MX Brown) Corsair RM1000x 
CaseMouseAudio
Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [The Verge] Most common encryption protocols are useless against NSA surveillance, new leak reveals