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post #61 of 96
i think if you are that busy you can afford another employee that can bring in extra revenue with custom projects.

but thats just my thoughts. who am i to judge.
     
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post #62 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKrader View Post

i think if you are that busy you can afford another employee that can bring in extra revenue with custom projects.

but thats just my thoughts. who am i to judge.

I think you must have missed the part in my post that said every custom order loses money. Adding employees won't help that rolleyes.gif

I don't regret doing the projects we did, but it isn't realistic to think we could keep doing them forever.
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post #63 of 96
I'm personally very hopeful Jim and CaseLabs will move into making a 60x30 computer desk enclosure.


At a cost to consumers much less than $1999. wink wink.gif
    
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post #64 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Labs View Post

I think you must have missed the part in my post that said every custom order loses money. Adding employees won't help that rolleyes.gif

I don't regret doing the projects we did, but it isn't realistic to think we could keep doing them forever.

Charge labor for custom work? I would pay an extra 100$ to get the two small differences that I want on my pedestal, I'm sure I'm not the only one that wouldn't mind paying for added customization. So then it wouldn't lose money?
     
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post #65 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKrader View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Labs View Post

I think you must have missed the part in my post that said every custom order loses money. Adding employees won't help that rolleyes.gif

I don't regret doing the projects we did, but it isn't realistic to think we could keep doing them forever.

Charge labor for custom work? I would pay an extra 100$ to get the two small differences that I want on my pedestal, I'm sure I'm not the only one that wouldn't mind paying for added customization. So then it wouldn't lose money?

$100.00 doesn't pay for the downtime, at all. When we weren't as busy, maybe, but now that we're in full-tilt, getting busier by the week, it's neither affordable nor manageable for us to stop the entire production line for something anyone with a center punch, drill, and a few drill bits couldn't do themselves. There are businesses out there dedicated to doing custom work, that's what they make their money from and that's how they're set up to do business. We're not.
post #66 of 96
tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

$100.00 doesn't pay for the downtime, at all. When we weren't as busy, maybe, but now that we're in full-tilt, getting busier by the week, it's neither affordable nor manageable for us to stop the entire production line for something anyone with a center punch, drill, and a few drill bits couldn't do themselves. There are businesses out there dedicated to doing custom work, that's what they make their money from and that's how they're set up to do business. We're not.

fair enough.

and i cant vent the back and take the flex bays off the front with a centerpunch and a drill

i wonder what company i can pay to remove the flex bays from the front? tongue.gif (im thinking the dual vented psu option will give me the venting i want, gotta find pictures)

EDIT: found vented pictures and that will be perfect. that means there is only one thing i want with my pedistal, and that is the flexbays removed from the front but keep the vents. there is an option for this on the s8?


thanks for your great product btw and im mostly playing my opinion of devils advocate and in no way to i mean any disrespect.
Edited by NKrader - 3/25/14 at 8:23pm
     
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post #67 of 96
Thread Starter 
No disrespect taken wink.gif

Not to beat a dead horse (and please feel free to skip the rest this post) but in the interest of having an open dialog with the community about why we have taken this step:

There is a big difference between a mod shop and a production facility even if the production company is small (like us). It’s perfectly understandable though how it may be hard to distinguish the difference between the two if you don’t have experience in those environments. One is optimized to efficiently produce one-off parts while the other is optimized to produce many parts. The two don’t cross over well because they are run very differently.

Many of the change requests we get require altering the fabrication process. For example: adding 10mm to the height of a top cover. That “simple” change requires: (1) an extended conversation with the customer to confirm what is need, (2) Engineering/programming for the CNC machines, (3) Drawings to be created so that machine operators know what they are making, (4) Machine setup on two major work centers (taking them off-line from production work) and several minor work centers, (5) Job-tracking for a single item job, (6) Full Q/C and test fit for a single item.

Doing all that is expensive, so a part like that should cost $250-$300 (and honestly I wouldn’t want to do it at that price for the reasons below). Of course, people would balk at that and claim that they were being “ripped off”, so we’ve charged much less. I even had one guy in a very similar example get very upset because were “only adding a few dollars’ worth of aluminum” to the cost of the part. Of course, he missed the obvious, but that’s what we have to deal with on a regular basis. To be honest, it’s not worth the hassle.

The more complicated issue is that as we get more successful, the demand for custom parts grows with it. Aside from the economic issues, it would quickly get to a point where we could do nothing else. Had we not suspended custom parts last fall, the S8 would never have been produced and accessory development would come to a standstill.

Our goal has been to make our cases easier to modify, so there is less need for custom parts. We have more “blank” parts and most of our cases now are made up of individual panels that can be replaced. We’ll continue to add more options and accessories as we see demand for them.

While some changes are easier than others, the issues of playing favorites comes up (“Why did you make his part and not mine?”). Ultimately it’s a lose-lose proposition. That’s not to say that you won’t ever see prototype or “concept” parts from time to time. We’ll occasionally test the waters that way, but we control the design, so it’s a different thing.

You have all been great and I can’t tell you how much we value your support. That’s why I thought it was important to have an open and honest discussion of the issues behind this.

Thank you smile.gif
Edited by Jim-CL - 3/26/14 at 9:44am
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post #68 of 96
If it's not in the store. Don't ask for it.

Simple.

I'm my line of work, customers always try to push the limits, and the moment I bend, they try to break me. In 2014, I suspended all special request and now the customers has to sign a separate contract for extras that will be completed after the main project is done. Too many times mixing the additions with the main project causes project creep, going over time and cost budget. I agree with your position CL. I see it first hand everyday, and that's the only way you'll continue to enjoy what you do if you set boundaries and stick to them.

CL already makes custom work. Many of the accessories CL offers would have to be modded with other case manufactures, but CL has them ready to go off the shelf. Anything else, make your own.
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post #69 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Labs View Post

No disrespect taken wink.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Not to beat a dead horse (and please feel free to skip the rest this post) but in the interest of having an open dialog with the community about why we have taken this step:

There is a big difference between a mod shop and a production facility even if the production company is small (like us). It’s perfectly understandable though how it may be hard to distinguish the difference between the two if you don’t have experience in those environments. One is optimized to efficiently produce one-off parts while the other is optimized to produce many parts. The two don’t cross over well because they are run very differently.

Many of the change requests we get require altering the fabrication process. For example: adding 10mm to the height of a top cover. That “simple” change requires: (1) an extended conversation with the customer to confirm what is need, (2) Engineering/programming for the CNC machines, (3) Drawings to be created so that machine operators know what they are making, (4) Machine setup on two major work centers (taking them off-line from production work) and several minor work centers, (5) Job-tracking for a single item job, (6) Full Q/C and test fit for a single item.

Doing all that is expensive, so a part like that should cost $250-$300 (and honestly I wouldn’t want to do it at that price for the reasons below). Of course, people would balk at that and claim that they were being “ripped off”, so we’ve charged much less. I even had one guy in a very similar example get very upset because were “only adding a few dollars’ worth of aluminum” to the cost of the part. Of course, he missed the obvious, but that’s what we have to deal with on a regular basis. To be honest, it’s not worth the hassle.

The more complicated issue is that as we get more successful, the demand for custom parts grows with it. Aside from the economic issues, it would quickly get to a point where we could do nothing else. Had we not suspended custom parts last fall, the S8 would never have been produced and accessory development would come to a standstill.

Our goal has been to make our cases easier to modify, so there is less need for custom parts. We have more “blank” parts and most of our cases now are made up of individual panels that can be replaced. We’ll continue to add more options and accessories as we see demand for them.

While some changes are easier than others, the issues of playing favorites comes up (“Why did you make his part and not mine?”). Ultimately it’s a lose-lose proposition. That’s not to say that you won’t ever see prototype or “concept” parts from time to time. We’ll occasionally test the waters that way, but we control the design, so it’s a different thing.

You have all been great and I can’t tell you how much we value your support. That’s why I thought it was important to have an open and honest discussion of the issues behind this.

Thank you smile.gif

Thanks, this explains alot, and this is why caselabs is awesome, you guys are good people and don't mind explaining when you don't really have to :-) also you guys spend a lot of time talking to the community and asking what we think and I love that!

So stoked for my s5 to get here and to see you guys in July at pdxlan
Edited by NKrader - 3/26/14 at 11:42am
     
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post #70 of 96
Let's see .. acc to the CL owners thread, and these are JUST the registered owners - From Feb 2011 to Dec 2012, the first 100 owners were regged.

From Dec 2012 to Aug 2013, the 2nd 100 owners were regged.

Already that's a jump from 23 months for the first 100, to 9 months for the 2nd 100 !

And from Aug 2013 to March 2014, the 3rd 100 owners have regged - in less than 8 months ! I'd say that reflects an increase in sales of CL cases !
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Intel i7-2600K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA SuperClocked 015-P3-1582-AR GeForce GTX 580 G.SKILL Sniper 4x4 F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR2 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 WD7501AALS Caviar Black WD5002AALX Caviar Black Lite-On iHAS124-04 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua NH-D14 Silverstone AP121-L x 6 Win 7 64bit HP ZR2440w 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ozone Gaming Gear Strike Mechanical Gaming Keyb... SeaSonic X Series X-850 SilverStone Temjin Series SST-TJ04B-EW Logitech G9x Black Two modes scroll USB Wired L... 
Mouse PadMouse Pad
Zowie Gear G-TF Speed e-Sport Gaming Mouse Pad Ratzpad 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-3770K ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE LGA 1155 EVGA 02G-P4-2683-KR GeForce GTX 680 Superclocked G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7... Lite-On iHAS124-04 COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 64 bit HP ZR2440w  CM Storm QuickFire Rapid SGK-4000-GKCL1-US SeaSonic X-850 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
AZZA Genesis 9000 CSAZ-9000B Logictech G9x Zowie G-TF Spawn 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-3770K ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE LGA 1155 EVGA 02G-P4-2683-KR GeForce GTX 680 Superclocked G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 256GB SATA III WD VelociRaptor 600GB 10000 RPM 32MB Cache SATA... LITE-ON DVD Burner XSPC Raystorm Extreme Universal CPU Watercoolin... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EVGA GTX 680 Hydro Copper Waterblock Lamptron FC8 Fan Controller GELID Solutions Gamer Fan WING 12 Blue UV x 4 Windows 7 Ultimate 
KeyboardPowerCaseOther
SteelSeries Merc Stealth OCZ Fatal1ty 1000W Individually-Sleeved Modular... NZXT SWITCH 810 Gun-Metal PPCS Luxury Single Braided Cold Cathode Kit - U... 
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Stufzinader
(18 items)
 
Calibri
(15 items)
 
PapaPayne
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-2600K ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 EVGA SuperClocked 015-P3-1582-AR GeForce GTX 580 G.SKILL Sniper 4x4 F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR2 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 WD7501AALS Caviar Black WD5002AALX Caviar Black Lite-On iHAS124-04 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua NH-D14 Silverstone AP121-L x 6 Win 7 64bit HP ZR2440w 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ozone Gaming Gear Strike Mechanical Gaming Keyb... SeaSonic X Series X-850 SilverStone Temjin Series SST-TJ04B-EW Logitech G9x Black Two modes scroll USB Wired L... 
Mouse PadMouse Pad
Zowie Gear G-TF Speed e-Sport Gaming Mouse Pad Ratzpad 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-3770K ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE LGA 1155 EVGA 02G-P4-2683-KR GeForce GTX 680 Superclocked G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7... Lite-On iHAS124-04 COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 64 bit HP ZR2440w  CM Storm QuickFire Rapid SGK-4000-GKCL1-US SeaSonic X-850 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
AZZA Genesis 9000 CSAZ-9000B Logictech G9x Zowie G-TF Spawn 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-3770K ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE LGA 1155 EVGA 02G-P4-2683-KR GeForce GTX 680 Superclocked G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin ... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 256GB SATA III WD VelociRaptor 600GB 10000 RPM 32MB Cache SATA... LITE-ON DVD Burner XSPC Raystorm Extreme Universal CPU Watercoolin... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EVGA GTX 680 Hydro Copper Waterblock Lamptron FC8 Fan Controller GELID Solutions Gamer Fan WING 12 Blue UV x 4 Windows 7 Ultimate 
KeyboardPowerCaseOther
SteelSeries Merc Stealth OCZ Fatal1ty 1000W Individually-Sleeved Modular... NZXT SWITCH 810 Gun-Metal PPCS Luxury Single Braided Cold Cathode Kit - U... 
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