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post #31 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

I take it you don't do much actual web design? or read very carefully?
Actually I do and did. but whatever mate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

this is my field. I am currently working on a design project for a medium size US company. I am point man on this project, I'm responsible for providing overall direction on the project, and creative design, functionality, and I also run their online marketing
This might come as a shock to you, but you're not the only IT professional on this forum wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyburner View Post

I don't know much about dev.
blah blah blah wordpress blah blah blah
Perhaps maybe you shouldn't be giving advice about the dev aspect of web dev if you don't know much about dev tongue.gif
post #32 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Actually I do and did. but whatever mate.
was just returning your flamey tone sarcastically, no offense taken nor intended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

This might come as a shock to you, but you're not the only IT professional on this forum wink.gif
well aware and you may be much more qualified than I am to provide any advice. also your forum respect level is evident and you are obviously a big contributor and knowledgeable, I was not trying to indicate otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Perhaps maybe you shouldn't be giving advice about the dev aspect of web dev if you don't know much about dev tongue.gif

my advice was relating to web design, ie,, the design of webpages. the project im currently working on would be considered a "dream job" project which anyone aspiring to professional web design would love to have on their portfolio. that is why I consider myself qualified to provide some advice for someone specifically asking how to get to where I am. this is the path I took, I have 2 years in this field. I have no idea why you are in here trying to tell me I shouldn't be giving advice about this.

as far as dev, I see the convo went that way, I don't know squat about anything other than basic html, css and wordpress. I hope this is clear enough.

I just wanted to contribute some help in an area I know a lot about.

*edit* wanted to append very clearly I am in no way disagreeing with any statements anyone else in this thread has made, except the one about me being unqualified to provide advice about web DESIGN, which is all I was ever trying to do.
Edited by Jollyburner - 9/12/13 at 5:10pm
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post #33 of 37
while I am here, this is a list of things that help me get my job done, and appended a list of firefox addons mostly used for the same.

AHK
mouse with macros and extra buttons (you will need to make sure the macros you can program are unlimited and very fast, eg 1 MS timings)
snipping tool
onenote (for getting organised)
multiple monitors (design must)
actual multiple monitors (multiple monitors must)
hack your windows a bit to remove unwanted behaviours (eg shake a window and minimize everything in win 7, this must go) (to do with multiple monitors and dexpot)
dexpot (flip through simulated monitors to switch between projects, etc, check it out you will see why its sick)
excel or other (you will need spreadsheet software for data manipulation even as a designer, I recommend excel)

css updater is cool too, if u don't know css yet. msg me if u decide to use this program I set u up.

dumped list of firefox extensions I use:

Application: Firefox 23.0.1 (20130814063812)
Operating System: WINNT (x86-msvc)

- Add Google Search To New Tab Page 1.0.2 (Disabled)
An extension that adds a Google search box to the new tab page
- CodeBurner for Firebug 1.6
Extends Firebug with reference material for HTML and CSS
- Context Search 0.4.6
Expands the context menu's 'Search for' item into a list of search engines.
- Copy Urls Expert 2.2.1
Provides options to "Copy Urls of All Opened Tabs", "Copy Urls of All Links in Text Selection" and "Copy Urls of All Images in Selection"
- cssUpdater 0.5.2
Edit css with firebug, and let cssUpdater update the corresponding css and element live in realtime!
- Custom New Tab 1.7.1 (Disabled)
Allows you to control what page is opened in a new tab.
- Double Click Closes Tab 0.27
Double click on WEBPAGE OR TAB to close current tab. Right and/or triple clicks supported. Double left click's intelligent - does not interfere with dictionary extensions which uses double click too.
- Extension List Dumper 1.15.2
Dumps a list of the installed extensions.
- Firebug 1.12.1
Web Development Evolved. Firebug is free and open source software distributed under the BSD License.
- Firebug Autocompleter 1.4.1 (Disabled)
Firebug command line autocomplete
- FireDiff 1.2.0
Track changes in Firebug
- Firefinder for Firebug 1.4
Finds HTML elements matching chosen CSS selector(s) or XPath expression
- Fireformat 1.0.1
Page source file formatter
- Firepicker 1.4.3
Simple color picker plugin for Firebug.
- FireShot 0.98.41
Adds the ability to take a screenshot of the page entirely, edit it and save in (PDF, JPEG, GIF, PNG or BMP), print, copy to clipboard, send to external editor or e-mail it. Additional annotation tools (text, freeform drawing, highlights) provide quick and easy way of documenting of captures.
- FVD Speed Dial with Full Online Sync 4.4.4 (Disabled)
FVD Speed Dial - Speed dial button, Online Synchronization, New Tab Start Page, Organize bookmarks, Custom backgrounds, custom dials, organized groups, most visited dials.
- IE Tab 4.0.20130422 (Disabled)
Enables you to use the embedded IE engine within Mozilla/Firefox.
- IE Tab 2 (FF 3.6+) 4.12.22.2
Enhanced version of the classic IE Tab that includes support for FireFox 3.6 and beyond.
- Leet Key 1.4.3
Transforms typed or static text to L337, ROT13, BASE64, HEX, URL, BIN, Morse Code, DVORAK, Upper Case, Lower Case, DES.
- MeasureIt 0.4.12
Draw out a ruler to get the pixel width and height of any elements on a webpage.
- Multiple Tab Handler 0.7.2013052901
Provides features to close (, reload, etc.) multiple tabs at once.
- New Tab King 5.1.14 (Disabled)
Forget about the blank new tab
- New Tab Plus 4.0.6.09 (Disabled)
New Tab Plus is one great Firefox extension by using HTML5. It provides speed dials for top or popular sites, and is easier to open your installed Firefox apps. More importantly, it organizes hundreds of popular sites' logo in the cloud, so that users could add any of their favorite sites on demand. Do not worry to lost your choice it will save users' customized configuration in the cloud. Meantime, it has some more useful functionality e.g. real-time weather report organized bookmark recent visited sites and cloud background pages. In one word, its goal is to improve the user experience of original Firefox New Tab.
- New Tab Pro 0.3.0
You can customize the number of the tiles of the New Tab page (about:newtab), right on that page.
- New Tab URL 2.01.13 (Disabled)
Assign any URL to be loaded in New Tab.
- QuickWiki 1.1.3 (Disabled)
Quick lookup in Wiktionary and Wikipedia.
- ReloadEvery 17.0.0
Reloads webpages every so many seconds or minutes
- Remove New Tab Button 1.0 (Disabled)
Removes the new tab button from the tabstrip.
- Restartless Restart 9
Fennec users enable to restart, otherwise a File -> Restart menu item will be added.
- RoboForm Toolbar for Firefox 7.8.8.5
RoboForm is password manager and form filler for Firefox.
- Save File to 2.5.1
Save files to user-defined folders and their sub-folders straight from context menu.
- Save Images 0.9.5
Save images in the open page.
- Save Session 1.3.1.6
Save Session can save the session only once.
- Send Tab URLs 2.1 (Disabled)
Send a list of browser tab URLs to email, Web mail, or the clipboard.
- Side Tabs 1.0
Side Tabs moves your tabs to the side of Firefox (aka vertical tabs), awesome for widescreen monitors and great for those who open a lot of tabs at once!
- Tab Counter 1.9.8
Counts the number of open tabs
- Tab Preview 0.3
Preview tab contents on mouseover
- Tab Wheel Scroll 20110909
Switch tabs by scrolling with the mouse wheel in the tab bar.
- Thumbnail Zoom Plus 2.5 (Disabled)
Shows full image when you hover over a thumbnail. Works with many sites including Amazon, Baidu Images, Bing Images, Facebook, Flickr, Google+, Google Images, IMDb, LinkedIn, Netflix, Pinterest, Reddit, Taobao, Tumblr, Twitter, Yandex.ru, YouTube, Weibo, Wikipedia, WordPress, Yahoo Images, and many more.
- Tile Tabs 10.1
Tiles browser tabs horizontally or vertically or in a grid.
- Undo Closed Tabs Button 3.8.4.3
Add a toolbar and/or tab bar button to undo closed tabs
- Unified Sidebar 0.1.2011111101
Unifies the sidebar and vertical tab bar.
- Vertical Tabs 0.9.4
Vertical Tabs for Firefox with a space-efficient native look & feel.
- Vertical Toolbar 0.5.1
Adds a vertical toolbar at the edge of the window.
- WikiLook 2.7.0
WikiLook is a Wikipedia and Wiktionary look up. Fast, light, open source tool that define words for you without need to open new tabs or extra windows.
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post #34 of 37
I'm with plan9 completely; dev work is not design work. Best to leave development advice to developers.

That said, wordpress can NEVER make you a better designer while it CAN hinder your ability to do designs that aren't reliant on it.

All you need in order to learn basic design (HTML and CSS) is notepad, Firefox/Chrome, some kind of image manipulation software, and MDN. If you want to understand why certain designs are possible, but still shouldn't be done, you need to look toward web development.
post #35 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

I'm with plan9 completely; dev work is not design work. Best to leave development advice to developers.

That said, wordpress can NEVER make you a better designer while it CAN hinder your ability to do designs that aren't reliant on it.

All you need in order to learn basic design (HTML and CSS) is notepad, Firefox/Chrome, some kind of image manipulation software, and MDN. If you want to understand why certain designs are possible, but still shouldn't be done, you need to look toward web development.

Many Thanks for the reply!


Thank you to all those who have put some thought and offered guidance, even if there is some disagreement I don't see it being a bad thing. I like the idea of a debate as it shows the pro's and con's. At the moment I'm studying HTML5, using code academy website and some books. To practice i'm using Notepad++ and Chrome and so far so good, surprisingly sinking in as well!

As far as my Photoshop skills go I will say they are average, saying that I'm a fairly quick learner with that, for example do one tutorial and it has sunk in. That side of things I have no concerns about, just getting all this coding together in my head and learnt, but once I master HTML5 to a reasonable standard, not to move on and then forget.

When coding for example in HTML5 can I also code the same design with PHP for argument sake within the same code? Is it possible to do combinations?
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post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion88 View Post

Many Thanks for the reply!


Thank you to all those who have put some thought and offered guidance, even if there is some disagreement I don't see it being a bad thing. I like the idea of a debate as it shows the pro's and con's. At the moment I'm studying HTML5, using code academy website and some books. To practice i'm using Notepad++ and Chrome and so far so good, surprisingly sinking in as well!

As far as my Photoshop skills go I will say they are average, saying that I'm a fairly quick learner with that, for example do one tutorial and it has sunk in. That side of things I have no concerns about, just getting all this coding together in my head and learnt, but once I master HTML5 to a reasonable standard, not to move on and then forget.

When coding for example in HTML5 can I also code the same design with PHP for argument sake within the same code? Is it possible to do combinations?

i wasnt trying to disagree with anyone ever... i think maybe these guys were misreading my posts... i just wanted to pass a few things along, i think because i used the word "wordpress" noone read anything else. i think you should definately pay attention to what members like plan9 and hajile say they are obviously both very knowledgeable about these things. all i have tried to do is provide some extra help, and then defend my position when told all my advice is bad. i know what im talking about, people pay me to talk about it. i get paid to do the thinky part of web design.

i wasnt suggesting you should definately learn or use wordpress, i was sayin its my recommendation for new new people to learn what a webpage is. and personally thats about as far as i got.

the discussion has been mostly about developing websites, and i have just ttried to provide some advice more about the creative design and drawing part which is what i do, i have a team that builds teh websites. i think somehow the things im writing were being read as though im telling you "this is what you should do" or "the advice already here is bad". that not what i was trying to say, its more like, "this is what i do, and btw its working", etc

have a look at those addons for firefox i listed, i know its a chunk of text but i guarantee you theres something in there you dont use and should be, probably a few. if you do wind up doing web design professionally you will shave hours off of projects with that list alone.
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post #37 of 37
Good synergy between information architecture and design (design of structure of data), the CMS (storing and management of said data) and front end (final presentation of said data) creates a good final product. The CMS should always reflect what content you have, never should your content be constricted by the structure of data your CMS can manage.

If you want to handle the whole design process (from visual to CMS), you need to understand the above.

A good task in learning any kind of design is to observe other's work and understand why it works. Web design is just another art form with its own technical limitations. Learning the limitations and your medium (HTML/CSS) as well will allow you to be realistic in your design and ultimately design better. Every step in the design/build process has the potential to lead you away from the initial concept. Good design is considerate of its medium (in this case HTML/CSS).

Sources
http://awwwards.com
http://webcreme.com
http://mediaqueri.es
http://bestwebgallery.com
http://www.verynicesites.com

Copying design will not further your understanding or help you in the long run.

Again, start with design, learn what good design is and learn to design well, then learn how to implement a CMS for that design. If your CMS doesn't allow you to manage the content in your design, find one that will. As I said before, SilverStripe lets me manage literally any content structure I may need to design for. Django is another CMS with this kind of flexibility, but there are many others. WordPress doesn't lend itself to logical content structure and separation of concerns, those being the storing/management of data and how the data is presented.
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