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[PCPER] IDF 2013: Intel Shows Off Haswell-Y and 14nm Broadwell Chips In New Devices - Page 5

post #41 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro37 View Post

Well, I might as well skip the Haswell up grade if Broadwell is coming by the end of the year. This might upset a few here on OCN.

It is initially going to be BGA only for mobile products. If you want Haswell i'd say get Haswell if you're stating this in context of LGA. Broadwell is focused entirely on power consumption, low leakage, and mobility - metrics that matter for mobile computing. If Broadwell comes to LGA it will be a long time from now and won't be a massive step forward in terms of IPC. These chips are designed primarily for efficiency, since mobile is actually selling while desktop sales are dipping 20-25% per quarter.
Edited by xoleras - 9/10/13 at 7:41pm
post #42 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

So...are they even going to bother with the Atom Z3000 chips then?

Why wouldn't they? Bay Trail is for a different segment of market and quite obviously does not perform as well as core. It is lower on the ladder than core is, so yes, they will bother. It is a massive step forward from the original Atom and is competitive with every ARM SOC, but isn't designed as a core i5 / i7 replacement for the mobile market.

Bay Trail is designed for entry level 100-300$ Windows 8.1 and Android devices, core devices are designed for high performing computing devices (core Broadwell, obviously, will be for high power mobile computing).
Edited by xoleras - 9/10/13 at 7:43pm
post #43 of 85
So do we have any idea what, if anything, is coming next year for desktop besides Haswell-E? I'm kinda hoping for a non-E chip with full x16 / x16 in Crossfire/SLI and DDR4.
    
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post #44 of 85
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Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

So do we have any idea what, if anything, is coming next year for desktop besides Haswell-E? I'm kinda hoping for a non-E chip with full x16 / x16 in Crossfire/SLI and DDR4.

Well, like I said before, if you do the math, Skylake will be next year according to their projections. As for the other stuff, I wouldn't expect that on a non E chip by next year, but we could be hopeful of more PCIe lanes though.
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post #45 of 85
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Originally Posted by Purger View Post

Well, like I said before, if you do the math, Skylake will be next year according to their projections. As for the other stuff, I wouldn't expect that on a non E chip by next year, but we could be hopeful of more PCIe lanes though.

I'm not sure how you did your math but there's no indication that skylake would be next year, everything points to 2015.
post #46 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Actually their speedy move has more to do with AMD than most want to admit. AMD APUs are looking really good for laptops and notebooks for the general market and don't forget the consoles. A lot of this may have also been the reason for Intel firing their marketing staff. AMD is grabbing enough of a share now to make an impact. It doesn't bode well if AMDs open source aka: HSA gets a foothold in the software market. Intels ICC would have less of an impact in restricting competing manufacturers and thereby possibly lose more market share, albeit that amount is uncertain.

But how much, if at all does that effect Intel? At this point, AMD has set themselves in a position that it's no longer a Coke vs Pepsi debate, but apples and oranges. It really seems Intel has and always will have a solid foothold in the market. AMD does budget the budget thing well and still after BD, I believe we're still seeing impact from that fiasco today. How much would that hurt Intel in today's market.

Correct me though if this crappy logic. Its still a bit early for my brain to be working today.
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post #47 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

So do we have any idea what, if anything, is coming next year for desktop besides Haswell-E? I'm kinda hoping for a non-E chip with full x16 / x16 in Crossfire/SLI and DDR4.

I have answered that in a 100 places but it seems the bad "journalists" that have infested the tech world make it extremely hard to say something sensible:

One can see that most of the rumours about the haswell refresh place it on Q2, and it's absolutely absurd to post "confirmations" that that means a) there will be nothing else released in Q3 or Q4 or b) that there will be a refresh at all.

i.e. Even if the - unconfirmed by Intel - refresh is released in around April, it makes perfect sense to have Broadwell LGA between August and November. It sounds absolutely absurd that intel would sit on a 14 nm industry - that was confirmed yesterday it is already running - that produces faster and cheaper chips per performance and do nothing about it. Max early 2015 but I expect that only if they screw up.
Edited by fateswarm - 9/12/13 at 12:39pm
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post #48 of 85
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Originally Posted by Ibage View Post

But how much, if at all does that effect Intel? At this point, AMD has set themselves in a position that it's no longer a Coke vs Pepsi debate, but apples and oranges. It really seems Intel has and always will have a solid foothold in the market. AMD does budget the budget thing well and still after BD, I believe we're still seeing impact from that fiasco today. How much would that hurt Intel in today's market.

Correct me though if this crappy logic. Its still a bit early for my brain to be working today.
True in some parts of the market granted. But Intel isn't likely going to allow AMD to take any part of the market no matter how small it may be. Keep in mind ICC is what keeps Intel on top more than any other factor. If AMD successfully gets some software that replaces that and it gets even slightly adopted then the story becomes a nightmare for Intel. So they are going to do all they can to stop the bleeding and maintain there current market share.
post #49 of 85
Seems nice too bad that Intel can only power gate and die shrink as the arch in terms of cpu needs to have a fresh base (P3 isn't yielding much anymore)
post #50 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Keep in mind ICC is what keeps Intel on top more than any other factor.

No it isn't.... Not even close.

What keeps intel on top are 1) technology advantage, 2) good management, and 3) money/workforce advantage

Also funnily enough some compiler in some piece of software making a difference in this day and age really isn't that important for the big profits. What matters for the mainstream is cramming acceptable performance in to the smallest power envelope as possible. And what matters for the enterprise/server/datacenter crowd is efficiency along with high performance. These are both areas where AMD isn't competing well not because of some stupid compiler, but because intel just has the money and R&D power to research these things, try out different power saving methods, use smaller nodes, make and tweak their very own fabs etc.

That's where the real money is at the moment. Not in the difference between an i5 and an 8350 being 10% or -10%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Seems nice too bad that Intel can only power gate and die shrink as the arch in terms of cpu needs to have a fresh base (P3 isn't yielding much anymore)

I'm not sure there's much proof of this as their goal for the past few years hasn't been to increase performance at a steady power consumption level (per core) but to decrease power consumption as much as possible (per core). And they've succeeded in that.
 
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