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Single Loop Need Advice Please For A Noobie

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
Early planning stage and a lot of decesions to be made. Thanks for all the post concerning water cooling and build logs. Really enjoyed reading the build logs. It is a big help.

Plan on building a new water cooled system in a C/Labs T10 be my preference may decide to use a different C/Labs case such as the Merlin SM8 or ST10 single wide because of shipping international & import tax.

The drawing is set up for the T10 case. 2 x 480s top and 1 x 480 bottom

Ambient temps 30c to 34c.

M/Board wet
CPU around a 4.6 GHz
2 or three 780 GPUs

3 x 480 Black Ice SR1 Rads.

Have 2 x 360s Black Ice SR1 rads and 2 x 360s Black Ice GTX,

Can I use these 4 360s not familiar with the GTX new rads?
How ever I think the 4 x 360s would make for a considerably longer loop and pressure drops?


2 x D5 Pumps (655 Ubers), B/Power fittings, EK REs,

Will this loop work in the following order?

Would it be better to run a dual loop?

Res, Pumps, Rad 1 in the bottom of the case to rad 2 top right side of case not shown, Rad 3 left top of case, Psu, M/Board, Moffset, Gpus x 2, Rad 1 in bottom left of case?

I think this will be the shortest route for the loop?

Do I need Phoyba 120 mm fan shrouds?

What other rads would you suggest?



Single Loop 3 x 480s .jpg 292k .jpg file
post #2 of 7
Whoa whoa, kind of confused by the picture, are you running one loop to cool down the CPU and GPUs, then another loop to go through rads only? If not, what order is water pumping through again?

EDIT: You don't NEED fan shrouds, but it's to stabilize air to flow better that flows out of it.
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post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Sorry about the confusion. Should have said the Case Labs double wide case sketch up is not very clear on the loop.

Hardware to transfer over to the new case.
M/Board Evga X58 Classy compleley under water. Moffset, N & S Bridge (Or I could use the Asus Black Edition M/Board I would need to purchase the water blocks or just cool the CPU on the M/Board then the GPUs?

CPU 990X clocked at 4.6 GHz/ Up date in 15 months
2 x Evga 580 FTW Hydros
PSU 2 x Corsair 1200w

Water Cooling Hardware to be transferd from the old case:

2 x D5 Pumps (Uber 655s)
1 x EK Res 250 advanced (Have 2)
Phobya 120 mm x 25 mm shrouds x 12.
2 x 99.9 percent Silver Kill Koils.

(Have 4 Black Ice Rads 2 x SR1 360s and 2 x Black Ice GTX 360s) I think 3 x 480s Black Ice SR1s is a better option for cooling?

One loop following in this order.

3 x 480 Black Ice SR1 480 rads starting at the res/Pump. thru the three rads to the CPU, M/Board, GPUs.

1. Res to rad 1. in the bottom left side of the case (bottom rad in picture).
2. top right rad 2 cannot see the rad in the picture it is behind the panel above the two PSUs.
3. Thru the top side panel at the top rear whole in the panel the case (there is a verticle opening in the panel) too Rad 3 top left rad in the picture,
4. Too CPU.
5. M/Board N/S Bridge then Moffset, (may skip and use the Asus Black Edition board).
6. 2 x 580 GPUs in Parallel.
7.bottom GPU back to the Res that completes the single loop.

No splits in the single loop. One continuous loop with 2 x D5 pumps (Uber 655s on a BP-2D5TOPP-BK Dual D5 Mod top with one EK 250 Res mounted directly on top of the Mod Top.

With 3 x 480 rads is there enough rads to cool the system in a continuous single loop with room for changes in 15 months? Ambient air temp 30C to 34C.

Have read a continuous single loop will cool better than a dual loop system providing you have enough radiator and enough water flow rate. That is why using 2 x D5 pumps with Ubber 655 kits on the Bits Power Mod Top for dual pumps with three 480 rads.

Should I run from res to rad one to cpu, M/Board, back to rad two then rad three to the GPUs to the Res? That would really make for a long single loop? Water pressure and water flow drop?

Should I run dual Loops?

With the Rad Shrouds not sure but may need to order the top 31 mm tall Caselabs case instead of standard? Give more room for fans and shrouds?

Advise please on the following. This is my second water cool build so my knowledge is very limited and made a lot of mistakes on the first build.

1. Single loop or dual loops?
2. What is the best rads for cooling and quiet?
3. Fan controllers? Be at least 24 fans 5 of whicj could connect to the M/Board or use a station.
4. Thinking Aquacool or Lamptron? Have 2 x Scythe Kaze Masters
5. Fans looking at Noctua or Scythe 120 mm fans.
6. Coolant Distilled water with two 99.9 percent Silver Kill Koils? No Additives is this a sound plan?


Run the pumps direct to the PSU. RPM direct to the M/Board. Want to keep it as simple as possible. Leaning really hard towards rigid tubing either copper or Cell Cast Acrylic tubing. Cell cast bends better and polishes very easily. Like to go with 1/2 in I.D. instead of 3/8 I.D.. Cant remember someone did a post using Copper tubing and a lot of info and links on copper tubing. Thank You for all of the post great information.


Thanks
post #4 of 7
1. Single loop or dual loops?

Single

2. What is the best rads for cooling and quiet?

You mention pressure drop... pressure increases as resistance goes up and flow rate drops. (3) 480s would probably have less flow rate drop than (4) 360s but the difference would be tiny.

3. Fan controllers? Be at least 24 fans 5 of whicj could connect to the M/Board or use a station.

If you buy all PWM fans you can connect all of them to the motherboard using PWM splitters. The power will come from molex not the motherboard so you won't have to worry.

4. Thinking Aquacool or Lamptron? Have 2 x Scythe Kaze Masters

If aquaero then wait for the new one coming soon but you don't need a fan controller if you buy PWM fans. If you buy a fan controller the biggest benefit will be running the fans from the water temp instead of CPU temp so get an aquaero. Also aquaero has a PWM output.

5. Fans looking at Noctua or Scythe 120 mm fans.

If silent fans are going to be used fan shrouds could maximize performance.

6. Coolant Distilled water with two 99.9 percent Silver Kill Koils? No Additives is this a sound plan?

I do not recommend silver kill coils. I would say it is pretty much proven that they can go bad especially in higher temp loops (like yours) and then cause silver oxide staining (black stuff) on all of your blocks. Either run Dead Water / PTNuke (copper sulfate) or run PTNuke (PHN) or run Feser Base (Ethylene Glycol). If you buy any blocks that are plated in nickel then you are best off running Ethylene Glycol or the specially formulated liquid the block manufacturer recommends.
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post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
More dumb questions.

Have to import every thing. Order from PPC. Shipping and import tax will be expensive. Wish I did not have to import liquids. Run a big risk of leaks if not packaged correctly and ending up side down from the shipping company.

Not trying to argue and appreciate your help.

I do not recommend silver kill coils. I would say it is pretty much proven that they can go bad especially in higher temp loops (like yours) and then cause silver oxide staining (black stuff) on all of your blocks.

Please provide some links that Kill Coils are not safe to use?

Doesn't it depend on the type of materials and quality of the rads, blocks and fittings? If the Kill Coils cause damage or not? Isnt the biggest issue from the tubing breaking down?

Either run Dead Water

What is dead water? Did a Goggle Search all kinds of crazy stuff. Distilled water?

Ethylene Glycol or the specially formulated liquid the block manufacturer recommends.

OK so how often do I need to change the liquid if I run rigid tubing?

Can I use anti-freeze? It is Ethylene Glycol
post #6 of 7
You wouldn't be importing large liquids that are heavy... the feser base stuff is very small. Yes you can just use anti-freeze. I would not use pre-mix though because you want to keep the ratio very low... lower than a summer blend. Unfortunately in the US the law requires that anti-freeze be colored... so you will have to deal with whatever color the anti-freeze comes in. I believe you can get red ethylene glycol based... if it is pre-mix just mix it with distilled water don't add it straight up like ASUS ROG recommends. Be careful though red sometimes is used to indicate dexcool so make sure it is not dexcool.

Dead water is a very tiny amount of copper sulfate mixed in with water. It comes in an eye dropper sized container. It is light blue in color but will not color the water at all because you only add a few drops. PTNuke (blue) is the same as dead water. PTNuke (Clear) is PHN which can be used instead of copper sulfate and I'd almost recommend it if you are running any nickel (although copper sulfate is that big of a deal with nickel).

As for proof of silver kill coil... this should be enough https://www.google.com/search?q=kill+coil&safe=off&rlz=1C1GIWA_enUS545US545&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UEQyUoC7Hebc2AX90oGgBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1097&bih=559&dpr=1

If that isn't enough this is a very recent post http://www.overclock.net/t/1223665/koolances-policy-on-nickel-silver-and-flaking-corrosion-whatever-you-call-the-nickel-coming-off/0_20#post_20754035

Anyone who tries to deny the validity of kill coils being a possible issue is full of it. I am not saying that kill coils WILL do this I am saying that they DO do this. Not to everyone just like not everyone had issues with the first EK Nickel Blocks. There is obviously a quality control issue or other unknown issues that the manufacturer has not acknowledged. What worked for the EK blocks (corrosion inhibitors) would make the kill coil completely pointless since it probably won't work at all at that point and most things that contain corrosion inhibitors have an algaecide or are an algaecide.


The more often you can change the fluid the better which is why using affordable fluid is ideal! I change mine every 6 months or sooner BUT 2 years is probably quite possible with nothing but ethylene glycol (no dyes). Vehicle coolant has other corrosion inhibitors (besides ethylene glycol) and some of them might not be water soluble and therefore may drop out of suspension or stain tubing. I would recommend you use the feser base if you can find it at an affordable price. It is also re-branded as dazmode protector.

canada? http://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_protector/
uk http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Feser-Base-50ml-Corrosion-Blocker-for-water-cooling-pid-5942.html
US http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/febafbcobl.html

If you go with all copper parts there is no reason to not consider PTNuke as being perfectly safe. Although you should know that even radiators made of brass could contain TIN in the solder. If running JUST PTNuke I would def change the fluid every 6 months to be on the safe side because if the PH of the water goes off it could accelerate corrosion.

Most people are just winging it and putting little thought into this and the majority of them end up perfectly fine even if they don't change it for a long time. Personally I would rather not be a statistic or one of the people posting images of messed up stuff.
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post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
givemedew, thanks for the information:

Lot to read. Earlier today, thought I saved the test from the lab just googeld it and cannot find the report in PDF format? Lab out of Germany or Swiss I believe could be mistaken? Reading how different medals, magnetic fields and how the magnetic field is created in the loop, Kill Coils, Aluminum, poor plating, inferior medals such as tin damages the blocks. Especialy where the water is not a very good quality of distilled water. How distilled wate3r can become contaminated in a reaaltive short period just setting in a bowl from the air, Coolant does not move mainly close to the screw holes in the top of the water blocks. The report went into detail about doing damage to the plating while inserting screws.. Large read lots of details for the engineers and scientific minded LOL.

My old systems have been setting in storage for 22 months will be deliverd in the next 4 weeks if the ship doesn't sink. They only had distilled water and kill Coils, did drain the the loops. Really concerned about the condition of the rads, blocks. It will be interesting. May have loops full of rust. Will have to take the blocks apart for a good inspection will post pics. Then make a decision on what rads and hardware to order.

Still trying to figure out the Caselabs case? Hardware and rads. Will go with a single loop.
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