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[ZEROHEDGE] TEPCO Official Admits Fukushima "Out Of Control" - Page 19

post #181 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie2009 View Post

They would have to stop using Monsanto round up, as it would kill normal food plants.

Anyway bit off topic.

as i said, gmo and pesticides are designed together. but it's not like they would stop using pesticides either way.

plus the two aren't inherently interconnected anyway. some gmos are designed to be pest resistant, actually decreasing the amount of pesticide needed
post #182 of 187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

as i said, gmo and pesticides are designed together. but it's not like they would stop using pesticides either way.

plus the two aren't inherently interconnected anyway. some gmos are designed to be pest resistant, actually decreasing the amount of pesticide needed

I didn't say it would stop pesticides, but they would have to be more careful on the levels and what they used. They are using enough now that it is turning up in people's urine.
post #183 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie2009 View Post

What happens when the whole food chain gets contaminated, it gets concentrated as you go up the chain.Tiny amounts in every creature in the sea is not the issue, but then they are all feeding on eachother it will build up as you go up the chain.

Also the leaks are worse than anyone will admit, here is just one recent report.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/10/un-fukushima-radiation-worse-than-feared-20131013165952856.html

The head of the Tepco 50 is dead of cancer.

The amount that the food chain gets contaminated is the issue here. If the amount is negligible, such that it does not substantially increase the disease rate in humans, then it is a non issue.

For example, if you build up 10^-15 grams of cesium in tiny creatures, then by the top of the food chain it will only increase concentrations by a maximum of 3-6 orders of magnitude simply through conservation of matter. This radioactivity also decays over time so it is also less than this maximum. I disagree that such a small amount of radioactive material would have any impact on us since humans regularly have to deal with sources of radiation such as background radiation, the natural radioactivity in the soil, radiotherapy, and xray machines.

Also the cancer that the head of tepco had could be merely coincidental.

Evven if the situation is 4 times worse than they suggest, that's still only 1200 tons per day. In order to affect the food chain, it would realistically need to be two orders of magnitude worse than they are suggesting, so a factor of 100, which would turn a few nanograms into a few hundred nanograms, or maybe even a microgram.

Although some of this is speculation, i think it is a reasonable hypothesis considering that the amounts in question are so small relatively. Chernobyl did not even increase disease rates substantially worldwide. Also I think the fact that it can buildup in the foodchain indicates some natural biological resistance to radioactivity . Humans have done so many nuclear bomb tests that fukishima should be a drop in the bucket.

if you have some study that has done the calculations on the buildup of radioactivity from fukishima in animals, and that it is enough to increase disease rates in humans, then I would be very interested in seeing it as it would prove my premise is entirely wrong.
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post #184 of 187
Roundup is sort of a non-issue. Roundup resistant superweeds are starting to show up. In five years, Roundup will be abandoned like an old antibiotic. Also, roundup can be excreted. You need to worry more about the stuff that we cannot excrete. The stuff that builds up in fatty tissues.
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post #185 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

The amount that the food chain gets contaminated is the issue here. If the amount is negligible, such that it does not substantially increase the disease rate in humans, then it is a non issue.

For example, if you build up 10^-15 grams of cesium in tiny creatures, then by the top of the food chain it will only increase concentrations by a maximum of 3-6 orders of magnitude simply through conservation of matter. This radioactivity also decays over time so it is also less than this maximum. I disagree that such a small amount of radioactive material would have any impact on us since humans regularly have to deal with sources of radiation such as background radiation, the natural radioactivity in the soil, radiotherapy, and xray machines.

Also the cancer that the head of tepco had could be merely coincidental.

Evven if the situation is 4 times worse than they suggest, that's still only 1200 tons per day. In order to affect the food chain, it would realistically need to be two orders of magnitude worse than they are suggesting, so a factor of 100, which would turn a few nanograms into a few hundred nanograms, or maybe even a microgram.

Although some of this is speculation, i think it is a reasonable hypothesis considering that the amounts in question are so small relatively. Chernobyl did not even increase disease rates substantially worldwide. Also I think the fact that it can buildup in the foodchain indicates some natural biological resistance to radioactivity . Humans have done so many nuclear bomb tests that fukishima should be a drop in the bucket.

if you have some study that has done the calculations on the buildup of radioactivity from fukishima in animals, and that it is enough to increase disease rates in humans, then I would be very interested in seeing it as it would prove my premise is entirely wrong.

Serp, if you're so confident about your small relative amounts and your reasonable hypothesis, then why don't you go and live in Japan? The reason why Chernobyl did not increase disease rates substantially worldwide is because Chernobyl is located in Ukraine and next to Belarus. On the other hand, Japan's nuclear reactors are right next to the Pacific ocean. Nuclear reactors near the Pacific ocean is a whole different story compared to Chernobyl. When the food chains are affected in the Pacific ocean with nuclear waste, then you better expect disease rates to climb up in twenty to forty years from now. I just don't get why you are living in such a denial? Leave your hypothesis and your facts at home. By the way, most of the nuclear tests are done on land and underground.
Edited by Captain1337 - 11/13/13 at 12:17am
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post #186 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain1337 View Post

Serp, if you're so confident about your small relative amounts and your reasonable hypothesis, then why don't you go and live in Japan? The reason why Chernobyl did not increase disease rates substantially worldwide is because Chernobyl is located in Ukraine and next to Belarus. On the other hand, Japan's nuclear reactors are right next to the Pacific ocean. Nuclear reactors near the Pacific ocean is a whole different story compared to Chernobyl. When the food chains are affected in the Pacific ocean with nuclear waste, then you better expect disease rates to climb up in twenty to forty years from now. I just don't get why you are living in such a denial? Leave your hypothesis and your facts at home. By the way, most of the nuclear tests are done on land and underground.

Few slight problems though in your analysis. First being that radiation bio-accumulates but does not bio-magnify. As long as a fish is alive they will have increasing radiation, that much is true. It has no mechanism to pass through tropic levels. Eating a fish that has been exposed to radiation is a possibility but remember the radiation we are dealing with. Most of it has to be ingested and even then only a very small percentage would actually remain in the fish. We are talking on the order of perhaps 2% to 5% and if we eat the fish we will only retain 2% to 5% of the total radiation of that fish. We can only ingest about 2% to 5% of the total radiation the fish has, which was 2% to 5% from direct exposure. Add to that the fish that have been tagged so far are less radioactive than a banana and there are plenty of places in the Pacific where that could have been picked up.

I know someone will want to throw gene mutations as a reason. Mutated organisms are rarely able to reproduce and when they do their offspring is even more rarely mutated as well. The first generation after the polluted generation would likely only be affected if they in development stages during the incident. Fish have a fairly high reproduction rate as well so everything will snap back quickly in that regard. Add to the fact people seem to think eating mutated organisms is a health risk. That just is not true, there is not a person on Earth that has not eaten a mutated organism.

As for nuclear testing yes you are correct that most tests occurred over land (that pesky atmosphere does a pretty good job of send that all over the world) or underground. In fact about 85% were done that way. The Marshall Islands (Pacific Proving Grounds) test account for 14%. The kicker though is that the tests carried out there amount to 80% of the total radiation yield from nuclear weapons testing. It doesn't matter how man. What matters is how much and the islands in the Pacific received quite a bit more than anywhere else.
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post #187 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain1337 View Post

Serp, if you're so confident about your small relative amounts and your reasonable hypothesis, then why don't you go and live in Japan? The reason why Chernobyl did not increase disease rates substantially worldwide is because Chernobyl is located in Ukraine and next to Belarus. On the other hand, Japan's nuclear reactors are right next to the Pacific ocean. Nuclear reactors near the Pacific ocean is a whole different story compared to Chernobyl. When the food chains are affected in the Pacific ocean with nuclear waste, then you better expect disease rates to climb up in twenty to forty years from now. I just don't get why you are living in such a denial? Leave your hypothesis and your facts at home. By the way, most of the nuclear tests are done on land and underground.

Lol, you just told me to leave facts at home. I guess that makes sense since your post contains no facts or evidence for your position. Facts are tough to deal with huh?

"Serp, if you're so confident about your small relative amounts and your reasonable hypothesis, then why don't you go and live in Japan?"

This is just a red herring that i won't really bother to respond to.

"When the food chains are affected in the Pacific ocean with nuclear waste, then you better expect disease rates to climb up in twenty to forty years from now."

Show me the studies and i'll eat my words.

"By the way, most of the nuclear tests are done on land and underground."

Uh, North Korea kind of just did a nuclear test right out in the middle of the ocean. And:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDMUekfOR-E

Far more radioactive material than fukishima. Two nukes were also dropped on Japan, and both cities are close to the ocean. I mean yes there are lots of underground tests, but since there have been so many overall, only a small percentage need to be over the ocean.
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