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post #21 of 29
So a 2-way Mirror can be comparable to a RAID 10, but still can only handle 1 drive failure.

Here is a great case study with Microsoft Storage Spaces:
http://globalsp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/wp-windows-storage-spaces-performance-ww-en.pdf

Try not to fall asleep while reading that.
Edited by tycoonbob - 9/18/13 at 1:19pm
post #22 of 29
I would recommend that at the very least you get a strong UPS if you are wanting to do any software RAID (Cyberpower PFC models, APC mid-range models, and Tripp Lite are good too).
Personally, though, I'd get a decent RAID controller card off eBay or something, obviously a true hardware level one (LSI MegaRAID SAS9261-8i is a pretty much perfect fit) and the proper BBU. Of course I'd still keep the whole system on a UPS, as I believe that power redundancy is pretty much just as important as the drive redundancy for data safety.

Also, with four disks I'd personally use RAID10 over RAID6, the write penalty for the latter is just way too great for so few disks, I have only really seen this circumvented by the newest Adaptec and Areca cards, especially the latter, with their having a very large cache (and price tags in the four figures).
RAID10 is reliable enough forhome use, IMHO. You get 4x read speed and 2-drive write speed, and a good controller can handle the parallel nature of the array quite well for multiple user arrays in my experience.


I am not an expert, not by a long shot, just wanted to share my own experiences. Hope it's of at least a little help!
   
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post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I would recommend that at the very least you get a strong UPS if you are wanting to do any software RAID (Cyberpower PFC models, APC mid-range models, and Tripp Lite are good too).
Personally, though, I'd get a decent RAID controller card off eBay or something, obviously a true hardware level one (LSI MegaRAID SAS9261-8i is a pretty much perfect fit) and the proper BBU. Of course I'd still keep the whole system on a UPS, as I believe that power redundancy is pretty much just as important as the drive redundancy for data safety.

Also, with four disks I'd personally use RAID10 over RAID6, the write penalty for the latter is just way too great for so few disks, I have only really seen this circumvented by the newest Adaptec and Areca cards, especially the latter, with their having a very large cache (and price tags in the four figures).
RAID10 is reliable enough forhome use, IMHO. You get 4x read speed and 2-drive write speed, and a good controller can handle the parallel nature of the array quite well for multiple user arrays in my experience.


I am not an expert, not by a long shot, just wanted to share my own experiences. Hope it's of at least a little help!

Thanks for your reply just 1 thing 4 disks in raid 10 do you get 4x reed speed? I think it will be 2 as data is written across 2 drives and mirrored on the other 2 so when it reeds will it include reed from the mirrored drives as all they have is a copy of the other 2 disks ?
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismallia View Post

Thanks for your reply just 1 thing 4 disks in raid 10 do you get 4x reed speed? I think it will be 2 as data is written across 2 drives and mirrored on the other 2 so when it reeds will it include reed from the mirrored drives as all they have is a copy of the other 2 disks ?

The read performance of a RAID 10 is nX (where n = number of disks in the array).

The only reason I would recommend RAID 6 over RAID 10 is if you intend to expand the array to a pretty good size (6-10 drives or something). If your array is only going to be 4 drives, then definitely go with RAID 10.
post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonbob View Post

The read performance of a RAID 10 is nX (where n = number of disks in the array).

The only reason I would recommend RAID 6 over RAID 10 is if you intend to expand the array to a pretty good size (6-10 drives or something). If your array is only going to be 4 drives, then definitely go with RAID 10.

I will expend over time. whats the reed and write performance in raid 5 or 6 I read that you get poor speeds in raid 6 and 5. ?
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismallia View Post

I will expend over time. whats the reed and write performance in raid 5 or 6 I read that you get poor speeds in raid 6 and 5. ?

Poor speeds? No. You take a write penalty for RAID 5 and worse for RAID 6, but you still get performance better than that of a single disk. RAID 5/6 is not ideal for lots of a random R/W, which is where RAID 10 excels. RAID 5/6 is great for WORM (Write-Once, Read-Many) data.

RAID 5 has read of (n-1)X, where RAID 6 has reads of (n-2)X. Write speeds of the two use the same formula -- RAID 5 writes are (n-1)X, and RAID 6 writes are (n-2)X. The key to a good RAID 5 or 6 implementation is having a quality controller.
post #27 of 29
I would ALMOST completely agree with the above, except....

Expanding RAID10 is possible, so long as you do it 2 drives at a time; plus, you maintain your high fault tolerance regardless of capacity, unlike parity RAID solutions where the more drives, the greater the chance of total data loss.


RAID does not cause a linear increase in speed. Generally, I see about 3.8-3.91x the speed of a single drive in 4-drive RAID0, and that's on a very high end ($1200) areca dual-core RoC hardware RAID controller with 4GB DDR3 Cache.
Overhead for RAID10 results in about 3.68-3.81x read speeds and about 1.98-2.01x write speeds. By far, though, the fastest random R/W speeds of any protected array, almost an order of magnitude faster than an equivalently sized RAID5/6 array.

Even with a very high end controller, RAID5 and 6 suffer pretty bad writes, as XOR calculations must be performed along with striping, and it's a fairly intensive process. I see pretty much 1/3-1/4th of what you'd think the maximum write speed would be for a given number of drives minus one, with read speeds that increase percentage-wise with the number of drives but for 4 drives about 2.97-3.2x compared to the 3.8 for RAID10, with RAID6 a bit slower still.

Regardless, it will saturate a 1Gb/sec ethernet link, which is why 10GbEth is so nice... You can use a file server as you would direct attached local storage for most everything, especially with 2 aggregated 10Gb links. The cards can be had super-cheap, but the switches still haven't dropped as much. Very worthwhile, though, unless you don't mind a maximum of 110MB/sec transfers on your very expensive RAID array...



Oh, and for parity RAID, with more than 3-4 drives, I'd say it's time for an upgrade from your PERC6/i. While I still recommend AGAINST parity RAID, if you must use it, then get something like an LSI MegaRAID SAS9261-8i (or better yet an areca ARC-1882ix 16-drive 1GB card and upgrade to a 4GB DIMM). It won't be cheap, but it's up to you as to the value of your data. Of course, a battery backup (and really a UPS) is a MUST HAVE, NO EXCEPTIONS, for this kind of use.
   
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post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I would ALMOST completely agree with the above, except....

Expanding RAID10 is possible, so long as you do it 2 drives at a time; plus, you maintain your high fault tolerance regardless of capacity, unlike parity RAID solutions where the more drives, the greater the chance of total data loss.
I never said you couldn't expand a RAID 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

RAID does not cause a linear increase in speed. Generally, I see about 3.8-3.91x the speed of a single drive in 4-drive RAID0, and that's on a very high end ($1200) areca dual-core RoC hardware RAID controller with 4GB DDR3 Cache.
Overhead for RAID10 results in about 3.68-3.81x read speeds and about 1.98-2.01x write speeds. By far, though, the fastest random R/W speeds of any protected array, almost an order of magnitude faster than an equivalently sized RAID5/6 array.
Actually, there is a linear increase in speed, theoretically. It all comes down to the controller, setup, and drives what you will get in actual use. Also, where are you getting your numbers? Any white sheets or studies to link, please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

Even with a very high end controller, RAID5 and 6 suffer pretty bad writes, as XOR calculations must be performed along with striping, and it's a fairly intensive process. I see pretty much 1/3-1/4th of what you'd think the maximum write speed would be for a given number of drives minus one, with read speeds that increase percentage-wise with the number of drives but for 4 drives about 2.97-3.2x compared to the 3.8 for RAID10, with RAID6 a bit slower still.
Saying RAID 5 or 6 has bad writes is very misleading. Write speeds in a parity-based RAID array is still higher than that of a single drive, and the more drives in the array, the more of an increase in speed you will have. Again, controller, drives, and configuration are limiting factors. Please provide a study or white sheet for your numbers as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

Regardless, it will saturate a 1Gb/sec ethernet link, which is why 10GbEth is so nice... You can use a file server as you would direct attached local storage for most everything, especially with 2 aggregated 10Gb links. The cards can be had super-cheap, but the switches still haven't dropped as much. Very worthwhile, though, unless you don't mind a maximum of 110MB/sec transfers on your very expensive RAID array...
This is 100% accurate, though. But keep in mind that even with a super fast array, random R/W can, in some cases, not even saturate a single gigabit link. You have to think about your uses at home whether or not a single gigabit link (LACP or not) will satisfy your needs. Chances are, they will. if you need more speed for SAN storage (remote storage for Virtual Machines), then look into MPIO. 2-4 gigabit links in MPIO on a storage network, and another 2 gigabit links in LACP for VM communication to the LAN will more than likely satisfy more than what you would need, in a home (or even SMB) setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

Oh, and for parity RAID, with more than 3-4 drives, I'd say it's time for an upgrade from your PERC6/i. While I still recommend AGAINST parity RAID, if you must use it, then get something like an LSI MegaRAID SAS9261-8i (or better yet an areca ARC-1882ix 16-drive 1GB card and upgrade to a 4GB DIMM). It won't be cheap, but it's up to you as to the value of your data. Of course, a battery backup (and really a UPS) is a MUST HAVE, NO EXCEPTIONS, for this kind of use.
While I think RAID 5 should die, it does have it's place. When using a RAID 5 or 6 with over 6 drives, or when the array is over 8TB (for a RAID 5) or over 25TB (for a RAID 6), don't expect to rebuild/recover the array when a drive dies. It is unlikely to be successful, and will be very time consume. When a drive dies in a RAID 5 or 6 this large, it's time to make sure your backups are 100% up to date. RAID 5 and 6 are still used in production environments for things such as archiving, sequential data, and WORM scenarios. RAID 10 is ideal for everything else. When it comes to massive SAN infrastructures based on hardware RAID, it's not about one large array. It's all about tiering and nested RAID.
If you use a RAID Controller, yes a BBU on the card is a must. A UPS on the server is also highly recommended. The MegaRAID 9260-4i, 9260-8i, 9261-4i, or 9261-8i are a great choice for a controller in a home settings. Plenty fast enough for most needs. If you want to go a little cheaper, check into the 9240 series. Want to splurge? Check into the 9280 series. Most RAID controllers out their use LSI chips, which is why I recommend controllers built by LSI directly. HP and Areca are the two exceptions, that I am aware of. higher end Areca cards are nice because you can upgrade the RAM, but in most cases (again, home or SMB related), that's just not necessary as 512MB+ is plenty.
post #29 of 29
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EVGA GTX780Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition @ 1483... 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws-Z @ DDR3-2248 9-10-9-26 1T Samsung 830 256GB SSD WD10EZEX 1TB HDD 
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WD10EALX 1TB HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB WD3200AAKS 320GB HDD WD5000HHTZ 10krpm 500GB VelociRaptor 
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LG/Hitachi Slim DVD-R/W Custom MB-Backside VRM-sinks (Copper) 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 1-2krpm 98.3CFM Case Fans 2x Corsair SP120-PE Case Fans 
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x MCP35X + Heatsinks/80x15mm Fan XSPC EX420 Alphacool NeXXos UT60 240 6x Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm Fans 
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