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[Ars Technica] Gabe Newell: Linux is the future of gaming, new hardware coming soon - Page 4

post #31 of 230
All he's doing is selling Steam to the Linux crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comment from the source 
2013 is really turning out to be the year of Linux.

Every year........
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post #32 of 230
a lot of fail in this thread.

whats so magic about windows? it crashes and people re-install rather than attempt to fix, people are so computer literate they think anything other than a big 'C' drive is complex. As for drivers there was a test recently that put the closed source nvidia drivers for linux on par with the windows 8 drivers in terms of performance they are in fact identical. Sure AMD's need some more work they are about 35% behind the windows drivers but each monthly release is narrowing the gap.

someone also said about the NSA, well im sure they can get into anything eventually but if they wanted to put a backdoor into the kernal they would be spotted straight away.

a form of linux is the future. Phones use it, tablets use it, PS3, PS4 will use a variant BSD, MAC is another albeit closed variant. If people want to use windows thats just fine but if you cant see the writing in the Clouds for Windows 9, 10 and a closed app store then your all going to have to stay on windows 7 for the next 15 - 20 years playing dx11 games whilst OpenGL titles monster on forwards using a linux operating system..
Edited by Pip Boy - 9/16/13 at 2:26pm
post #33 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchmoSalt View Post

Valve may have a lot of pull but they do have that much pull. Until Linux develops a more user friendly and productive environment I'll stick to Windows. I want a OS where the file system makes sense and the UI is on par with Windows. Let's face it, C:\Windows and D:\Steam makes a lot more sense than a bunch of folders named dev, usr, var, etc in a root directory. That just isn't happening with Linux.

I've tried Linux before, multiple times even. I've hated it and switched back to Windows every time.
The root directory is like the Windows directory, in that you generally don't mess with it; all you normally use is /home. On the rare occasion that you do need to do something there, you can find tutorials aplenty for whatever you need to do, unlike Windows' "if it doesn't work, wipe and reinstall it" approach. Also, file system wise, Linux is light-years ahead of Windows: NTFS is ancient and terrible compared to EXT4 and the like, and Linux has stuff like LVM too. And don't even get me started on UI...

Distros focused on user-friendliness like Ubuntu, Mint, Chakra, #!, etc. (as opposed to Arch, Gentoo, etc.) are quite easy to use, with very little if any command-line use needed. You just have to accept that it's not Windows, and thus will do things differently.


On topic: Good to see Gabe's enthusiasm for Linux gaming. Steam's push for Linux support seems to be working, with several of the big devs either investigating or developing for Linux now.

The beauty about UIs on Linux-based distros is that they've all been built around customizability. If you want Linux to look like Windows, you have multiple options to achieve that. For example, Zorin OS.

And if you don't want it to settle for a Windows imitation, well then you're on the right path because customizing the UI to fit your specific needs is one of "Linux's" (in double quotes because Linux is technically just a kernel but you know what I actually mean) biggest advantages. You can't do that very well in Windows, and you certainly can't do it in OSX.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are thousands of complaints you could have about Linux. There are many valid reasons not to use it. However, the filesystem and UI are both clear advantages to using Linux, not disadvantages. The filesystem (and shell too since they're closely related) is far superior in Linux compared to Windows. The availability of UI options found in Linux distros are overwhelming, but it means that you get to put together your own personalized UI, and have a ton of control over it too.

I'm also very happy that Gabe is pushing so hard for Linux gaming, I really think it's the future of gaming. The success of Android should show this; Valve is trying to pull a Google here. As long as they understand what the users want (which they do) and they have the talent and money to get it together (which it's looking like they do, thanks to the Steam consistently bringing in so much profit), then they can build an OS off of Linux/Ubuntu that will fix/hide the ugly parts of Linux, and will make the great parts more noticeable/accessible.

I have a theory that Valve is going to be utilizing VM's a lot with the Steambox, or if not the first one, the next Steambox whenever that comes out. There's a lot of interesting crazy stuff you can do with VM's, especially with new features that are being developed for VM's. The new consoles are using VM's already, but they're just using them for better social media integration into the platform. VM's, along with the massive selection of good games that are easy to run on modern hardware out there, mean running multiple games off of one system is a possibility that will be reached soon. Valve has stated there will be three levels of Steambox, good, better and best. I think the "best" will be designed to run multiple games at once. Linux plays very nice with virtualization because together they've been used on servers everywhere.
post #34 of 230
It doesn't really matter what Gabe thinks, his early view regarding the PS3 highlights that the consumer will regardless of the developers opinion will determine the outcome and success of a platform. The real problem is the market share of Linux, not Ubuntu but all distros is so small that no AAA titles will ever get released and if they do it will be at a substantial delay and likely poorer performance although this is due to drivers which is another problem with Linux and not one they can control.
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post #35 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

All he's doing is selling Steam to the Linux crowd.

Not really, If you said he was pushing Linux gaming to eventually push their Steambox (which is Linux based) I could maybe understand that. In reality there have been some fairly big problems with the direction that Microsoft has been taking Windows. An example of that was mentioned in the article being the "App Store" and how much time and effort it takes to get "approved", or Windows 8 pushing a primarily touchscreen driven UI on a mostly non touchscreen platform. They aren't just trying to sell a few extra games to the Linux using community, they are also working on parts of Linux to make it a better gaming platform as a whole. They have been working with Nvidia and AMD to improve the performance of their drivers, and they have also been working on parts of the Clang C/C++ compiler. Again it could be said that these things are only to further their Linux based Steambox, which is a validly arguable point. Though, the other things they are doing really doesn't just help them, better drivers and a better compiler help any game developer to make games for Linux. You could even say that the compiler work benefits any software that is compiled with Clang.
Edited by FateousMaximous - 9/16/13 at 2:35pm
post #36 of 230
there is also a lot of work going into a new display server to replace the old xserver. Whatever the outcome MIR or Weyland aim for 'perfect' frames with no tearing or out of sync frames which would make it ideal for gaming Both are available for testing but they should of matured in 3 - 6 months in time with newer AMD / Nvidia and Intel GPU drivers at which point there will be a good solid platform for those who want AAA titles on linux.

I would ask what AAA titles are actually out on PC right now that really warrant DX11 or staying with windows? With claim of Metro last night coming to linux and a PS4 (read linux / BSD) version of Planet side I can only see BF4 and the Witcher as key titles (perhaps ARMAIII ?). Right now im playing DOTA, TF2, CS, L4D2 on steam as well as a lot of great indie games with really good performance, CS:GO is out fairly soon too.

with regards to general functionality using something like KDE is a much slicker and customizable experience than windows

And thats what I don't get? People on OCN are all about custom stuff yet stick with a dull locked down operating system where you have to install layers of slow down customization software, virus / malware applications just to get rid of the hideous stock look and feel and secure the system. With linux there are many different desktop environments to choose each of which is designed to be customized from the ground up.
Edited by Pip Boy - 9/16/13 at 2:46pm
post #37 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadman View Post

I want it to be.
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post #38 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eatfoodnow View Post

The beauty about UIs on Linux-based distros is that they've all been built around customizability. If you want Linux to look like Windows, you have multiple options to achieve that. For example, Zorin OS.

And if you don't want it to settle for a Windows imitation, well then you're on the right path because customizing the UI to fit your specific needs is one of "Linux's" (in double quotes because Linux is technically just a kernel but you know what I actually mean) biggest advantages. You can't do that very well in Windows, and you certainly can't do it in OSX.

Sure you can. Any DE from Linux can be run just fine on OSX. I know people hate Apple, but can we not spew crap without thinking first? OSX is a fair bit open, aside from some Apple only things most of the source code is readily available right from Apple. Granted their Desktop Environment is one of their closed source creations, the vast majority of the base is open and anyone can run X.org in OSX or Darwin (their source), along with any window manager or desktop environment you want.

As to people who want to complain, everything starts somewhere and Steam on Linux is off to a great start. And no one is expecting to convert every windows user, just give people an option who otherwise are dual booting specifically for games, holding out on Linux until more games come, or simply holding out on windows till Linux becomes more viable.

Either way, Linux is and likely will be a viable option in the not too distant future. Aside from Valve a number of big game studios have already said they'll start making more cross platform games.
post #39 of 230
Isn't the "steambox" they are developing Linux-based? I mean if I was developing something like that I'd say it's the future too. Linux just isn't user-friendly enough right now for mass consumption. I don't see it being user friendly in the next couple of years either. Not that Linux is bad or anything it's just more complicated to use than say Windows 7 or 8. It sounds like he is just getting ready to hype steambox to me.
post #40 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILNOK View Post

Isn't the "steambox" they are developing Linux-based? I mean if I was developing something like that I'd say it's the future too. Linux just isn't user-friendly enough right now for mass consumption. I don't see it being user friendly in the next couple of years either. Not that Linux is bad or anything it's just more complicated to use than say Windows 7 or 8. It sounds like he is just getting ready to hype steambox to me.

a distro like linux mint is easier than windows IMO. Installing software and drivers is easier, (mint has a drivers app) changing settings is easier, installing fresh is easier. Even extra features like a whole disc encryption with entry key on startup is easy and included

the only thing anyone might struggle with would be an oddball wireless card, all the main applications that people generally use on windows are on linux but they come bundled rather than having to pay on windows.

look at paint vs GIMP , Banshee or Amorak vs Windows media player, pigin messenger vs msn messenger, libre office vs $$$ Microsoft office etc.. most distros come with VPN software and Torrent clients amongst just about everything else including the kitchen sink and they load and operate generally faster too in most cases.
Edited by Pip Boy - 9/16/13 at 3:12pm
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