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[Ars] California school district hires online monitoring firm to watch 13,000 students - Page 12

post #111 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by xquisit View Post

Funny, they start it in the city I reside in... Thankfully, I am not in the age group to be watched. Unfortunately, teenager's have to worry about their privacy being invaded to a certain extent; After all, if they did post something on a social media network it should be viewable to anyone but to judge them for it and take action isn't right (to a certain degree).

Exactly. Social categorization is the root of bullying in the first place. How the hell can it be justified just because someone with training on how to do it "properly" is the one doing the labeling? All this accomplishes is to perpetuate the illusion of safety in conformity that has trapped greater society in a subjugated state.

Backwards it is.
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post #112 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Why is everyone so against this.
School for children incorporates everything. Have any of you actually read the rules around school? Even when you go home if you commit a criminal action the school is still involved.
Basically the social norm is now a combination of in-person and on-line actions. Teachers before mass social media would work towards controlling student behavior in classrooms and around school property by watching the students and intervening when necessary, such as school fights.

Police officers were assigned duty inside schools to help teachers work towards promoting good behavior.

Students face bullies now in person and on-line. The teachers and police officers there to help students have no power or knowledge of these on-line actions, unless the student tells them. Many students are afraid to ask for help.

While privacy is an issue and I fully support protecting privacy, schools need some way to protect their students from on-line behavioral threats. Bullying is an absolute real issue and with the ease of using social media it is extremely easy to attack someone 24/7 with little consequence.

While direct monitoring of students social media is unpopular and may be a large step in a direction, at least it is a step at all towards adapting to our Internet driven media lives. The internet is here to stay and more and more are our young being connected to it with very VERY little parental guidance and consequence of actions.

Parents send their children to school to learn and with the expectation that their children will be protected from harm, in all forms, and to have a positive social atmosphere. The school is a guardian to students and must do whatever it can to support the positive growth and prosperity of the students that attend.

Yes, parents are to blame for the behavior of their children, but that doesn't mean the school should stand by and let that child continue to cause harm to themselves or others. If the school can learn that a child is in trouble they have the resources to try and help that child and create the positive and prosperous environment needed to grow.

 

Schools shouldn't be snooping in outside of school business. Period. If it's off school grounds, or property, then it's none of their business. That's a parent's job.

 

Let me amend that statement. They can snoop all they want, it's public posts, but they should not inflict punishment for anything that takes place off school grounds.


Edited by nvidiaftw12 - 9/29/13 at 9:05pm
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post #113 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Exactly. Social categorization is the root of bullying in the first place. How the hell can it be justified just because someone with training on how to do it "properly" is the one doing the labeling? All this accomplishes is to perpetuate the illusion of safety in conformity that has trapped greater society in a subjugated state.

Backwards it is.

so what if it's social categorization? social categorization is a practical necessity, unless you want to pull the 60s style, "it's like...all relative man" perspective. do you think that, for example, people who are legitimately schizophrenic or delusional shouldn't receive treatment because doing requires social categorization? it's a serious issue and i'd rather have them take action than sit in some 60s style morally relativistic stupor and say "hey they might be bullying. but really what is bullying? it's just a category for behavior that society deems negative." considering the role such behavior seems to have on motivating school violence (often in revenge), distracting from the learning environment, and damaging individuals psychologically i'd say action is necessary
Edited by perfectblade - 9/29/13 at 11:33pm
post #114 of 119
If kids want to post all of their thoughts on public forums, not my problem. Maybe kids will finally get the hint.
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post #115 of 119
two words.... web filter
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post #116 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

so what if it's social categorization? social categorization is a practical necessity, unless you want to pull the 60s style, "it's like...all relative man" perspective. do you think that, for example, people who are legitimately schizophrenic or delusional shouldn't receive treatment because doing requires social categorization? it's a serious issue and i'd rather have them take action than sit in some 60s style morally relativistic stupor and say "hey they might be bullying. but really what is bullying? it's just a category for behavior that society deems negative." considering the role such behavior seems to have on motivating school violence (often in revenge), distracting from the learning environment, and damaging individuals psychologically i'd say action is necessary

Ok but they're kids. They are in the stage of life where their personal identities and social awareness are in a fragile state. The opinions of others are often amplified beyond the capability of self-assurance and positive reinforcement to overcome at this time. So hey, how about we institutionalize the whole process and really hammer home the belief that you're only as good as you're judged to be by outside observers. doh.gif

And anyway, I would think you could at least recognize the depth of the psychological impact you could have on a young person who is already socially anomalous by calling them aside and telling them that the behavior which they thought was natural isn't, and they need help just because they're being themselves...

Considering the conversations we've had before, I am really surprised to see you try and wring an implication such as "hippie" from my opinions. Nice work. They might have a job for you at this Geo Listening.
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post #117 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Ok but they're kids. They are in the stage of life where their personal identities and social awareness are in a fragile state. The opinions of others are often amplified beyond the capability of self-assurance and positive reinforcement to overcome at this time. So hey, how about we institutionalize the whole process and really hammer home the belief that you're only as good as you're judged to be by outside observers. doh.gif

And anyway, I would think you could at least recognize the depth of the psychological impact you could have on a young person who is already socially anomalous by calling them aside and telling them that the behavior which they thought was natural isn't, and they need help just because they're being themselves...

Considering the conversations we've had before, I am really surprised to see you try and wring an implication such as "hippie" from my opinions. Nice work. They might have a job for you at this Geo Listening.

Another reason I blame T-ball.

Questions for everyone:
When I was growing up many years ago, kids were bullied every day. I was one of them. Not once did I or any of my classmates even consider stupicide(sic), nor coming to school with a backpack full of weapons. In fact I cannot remember one of these incidents as a child, even through high school. (I am sure there was one or two). Now given, the internet and social media in particular opens you up to massive amounts of taunting because it is so easy.

So, how would you guys fix this situation _without_ paying an outside firm to monitor public posts?
Why would you use your particular resolution?
How would it affect the current generation?
Why would your resolution not work?

( I threw the last one in so each of you could be your own devil's advocate).
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post #118 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

Ok but they're kids. They are in the stage of life where their personal identities and social awareness are in a fragile state.

exactly, so should we really take the stance that bullying and hazing are "ok"? they have potential to cause psychological damage in those who are the victims, especially at a young age. and as far as the perpetrators of the bullying, if they aren't corrected, they may go on continue to act in sociopathic ways later in life. what about other forms of anti-social behavior like stealing? should kids entirely get off the hook? yeah sounds like a good life lesson for them rolleyes.gif

really their parents should be dealing with the issue, but they can't always be aware of what is going on at school. taking a laissez faire parenting strategy typically backfires and, with how the modern workforce functions, schools raise kids as much (or more, sadly) than parents who are typically overworked
Edited by perfectblade - 9/30/13 at 4:12pm
post #119 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Another reason I blame T-ball.

Questions for everyone:
When I was growing up many years ago, kids were bullied every day. I was one of them. Not once did I or any of my classmates even consider stupicide(sic), nor coming to school with a backpack full of weapons. In fact I cannot remember one of these incidents as a child, even through high school. (I am sure there was one or two). Now given, the internet and social media in particular opens you up to massive amounts of taunting because it is so easy.

So, how would you guys fix this situation _without_ paying an outside firm to monitor public posts?
Why would you use your particular resolution?
How would it affect the current generation?
Why would your resolution not work?

( I threw the last one in so each of you could be your own devil's advocate).

Coincidentally I was contemplating a way to include an alternative solution in my last post. The best idea I have is to restructure our secondary schooling curricula to include more varied and specialized routes of education. This step could possibly enable students to spend more of their learning time with like-minded individuals (and avoid those whom they don't mesh with so well), as well as provide financial efficiency to them due to the ability to begin targeted study while still taking advantage of state-sponsored education.

I believe that with earlier access to electronic resources, which the current generation is more adept at using than those before, they have more capability to find something to study that they are interested in, which could make it easier for them to excel, as well as help them gain the realization that what they learn has real world implications at a younger age. Of course it is up to the education system itself to make use of such resources, which I believe is the biggest hurdle in achieving this solution. With all of the advances schools have made along these roads, the philosophy of making sure every student partakes in every curriculum to a standardized degree is what is holding it back.

Of course this is all just pondering.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

exactly, so should we really take the stance that bullying and hazing are "ok"? they have potential to cause psychological damage in those who are the victims, especially at a young age. and as far as the perpetrators of the bullying, if they aren't corrected, they may go on continue to act in sociopathic ways later in life. what about other forms of anti-social behavior like stealing? should kids entirely get off the hook? yeah sounds like a good life lesson for them rolleyes.gif

really their parents should be dealing with the issue, but they can't always be aware of what is going on at school. taking a laissez faire parenting strategy typically backfires and, with how the modern workforce functions, schools raise kids as much (or more, sadly) than parents who are typically overworked

I never said we should take that stance. The fact that I oppose this does not in fact lead to that conclusion. However, this question makes me think you have forgotten that children can ultimately distinguish peers from authority, and that is the real line which I feel is being crossed here. One has the capability to remove themselves from whatever peers they feel are detrimental to themselves, which is not an easy lesson to learn at a younger age, I admit, but is still an important one. In comparison, authority will always exist and is socially inescapable. So ultimately a young person is much more likely to view the authority's judgment of themselves as true than that of their peers. That is why this has the potential to be more psychologically damaging than whatever schemes their schoolmates are perpetrating (which, I just feel like mentioning, will obviously be carried out outside of the view of whatever authority figure is watching, electronic or otherwise. Kids adapt like that).

Finally, hazing is voluntary. Don't lump it with bullying.
Edited by un-midas touch - 9/30/13 at 4:50pm
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