Originally Posted by DzillaXx
First off Why are we Still comparing the 290x to the titan.....
Totally different price range to begin with, but if it happens to compete with a Titan on some level good for it.
I was comparing them because of the thread title and because other people were comparing them.
Personally I would be surprised if AMD could fit in all 2816 shaders into the 430 mm² chip, but with possible further tweaks then what we saw with the 7790 and maybe using the same fab tech that allowed Nvidia to compress the mm² of their kepler chips slightly (iirc). But GK110 is still not a gaming chip at heart so there is probably a lot of fat that could be cut that games would never use.
7790 has a 30% bigger die size than 7770 and has 40% more SP and the only thing increased was SPs and TMUs.
With hawaii you want 37.5% more SPs, 50% more ROPs, etc. with a ~20% max die size increase. And the portion of memory controllers and IO on Tahiti is smaller than 7770/7790 so the increased SP and ROP space from the die size increase is smaller than 7770 to 7790.
Plus the 7970 was mostly limited by the Cards weak Front End (Raster Engines) and Lacking Back End (ROPs).
Simply couldn't feed the shaders well enough. Add in the extra shader and tmu count and you finally got a balanced card with a big performance increase. The Increase in Raster Engines and ROPs alone would have given a big performance boost. And with 2816 Cores it will be faster then a GTX780 Clock for Clock and pretty close to a titan.
Even if the 7970 was completely 100% ROP bottlenecked you would need a ~45% clock for clock increase from Hawaii to match a Titan clock for clock. Pretty much impossible with the specs shown here.
Also what makes you think AMD's cards will be any less impressive while overclocking? For that we really won't know until we get our hands on it. Sure the Titan may still be a hair faster clock for clock if the specs are true, but if AMD isn't able to keep up in clock speed it really wouldn't matter. Especially when the Titan cost so much more.
Not saying they will be less impressive when it comes to OCing, just saying that GK110 will have higher max clock speeds when OC'd. Simply for the reason that GK110 wins that battle even against Tahiti. Hawaii will not clock as high as Tahiti without more voltage simply because the chip is so much bigger.
Though sucks for all the Titan users when the Titan Ultra comes along taking the Fastest Card award with it. Though Plenty of people will no doubt sell their titan for the titan ultra just so they can have the fastest single gpu.
I haven't seen anything more than pure rumors about a Titan ultra...
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri
Actually, with 2800 SP's I think it can beat even the Titan. 7970 doesn't scale as well as GK110 with OC b/c it is ROP's limited and that issues will be addressed with R9-290X.
But I dun think it will have 2.8k SP's
Scaling with OCing isn't the issue when it comes to clock for clock perf. The problem here is that GK110 clocks higher so Hawaii would need to beat a Titan clock for clock by a fair margin to match it overall.
Originally Posted by criminal
Titan will have been out for 9 months before Hawaii launches and who knows if/when a Titan Ultra will launch. Most Titan owners will simply sell and buy the faster card. Not that huge of a deal.
Pretty much this. However I still have not seen any proof of a Titan ultra.
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri
But we had different situation back then. 5870 was slower than 480, while 7970 is faster than 680.
5870 die size: 334mm^2
480 die size: 520mm^2
7970 die size: 365mm^2
680 die size: 294mm^2
See the issue? Nvidia is much better off now than it was then. The lead they have is bigger.Edited by Alatar - 9/20/13 at 8:55am