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[VC] AMD Radeon R9 290X with Hawaii GPU pictured, has 512-bit 4GB Memory - Page 104

post #1031 of 1055
Please release a version that is based of of that design with a back plate. I just want clean black coolers and a clean black back plate is that too much to ask for? stick with red and black too and im totally sold.

does anyone else cringe when they see the ugly designs coming out from 3rd party vendors? the colors make me want to vomit, the stickers are usually so ugly..
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post #1032 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

yeah as was earlier expected Oct 15th will be the retail launch date and the day when reviews are up. AMD should not have had pre-order for BF4 Battlefield edition on Oct 3rd. they should have released the SKU on Oct 15th along with reviews and then users would decide.

I agree but, as always, it ends up being "Buyer Beware". Nobody should preorder this card before the release of such basic info as price...
post #1033 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killam0n View Post

Please release a version that is based of of that design with a back plate. I just want clean black coolers and a clean black back plate is that too much to ask for? stick with red and black too and im totally sold.

does anyone else cringe when they see the ugly designs coming out from 3rd party vendors? the colors make me want to vomit, the stickers are usually so ugly..

XFX has heard your plea:


Unfortunately, that's a 280X tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

yeah as was earlier expected Oct 15th will be the retail launch date and the day when reviews are up. AMD should not have had pre-order for BF4 Battlefield edition on Oct 3rd. they should have released the SKU on Oct 15th along with reviews and then users would decide.

I agree but, as always, it ends up being "Buyer Beware". Nobody should preorder this card before the release of such basic info as price...

One would assume they will have a price on Oct 3rd (for the pre-order version), else they'll have a fun time trying to have people buy it. biggrin.gif
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post #1034 of 1055
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P67tWF2mMrM

Austin explains the Rx GPU product stack. he gives hints at the performance of the entire stack. The chips themselves are Oland (most likely), Bonaire, Pitcairn, Tahiti, Hawaii. Pitcairn and Tahiti look to have ASIC tweaks to incorporate GCN 1.1 style power management to improve power efficiency.
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post #1035 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

Doubt it. Maybe maybe for consoles, but in PCs there's far too much variation, even within GCN, to do that.

Since it's locked to the GCN architecture it's probably closer to what I said - eliminate CPU overheads as no "translation" is required. The programmer needs to do something, so works out the most computationally efficient way of doing it, and tells the GPU that in it's own language. The GPU can allocate it's resources to carrying out the task, it's probably the driver's job (or the hardware itself) which does that.

I can tell you have no experience in programming of rendering APIs. They already do that, they already try to be as much low-level as possible, and since the last 7-8 years, the involvement of CPU and RAM is extremely limited (to the point of being non-existent if you compared it to the first versions of the APIs of 20 years ago).

But what they can not do is to be hardware specific, and that's the only advantage of it, and that's where you are right, it's mainly about Consoles, since PCs will be unable to offer uniformity of hardware (unless the coders are insane and code specifically for all popular GPUs, it's remotely possible), and it explains why John Carmack firstly saw a backlash from MS and Sony and not others on open platforms.

edit: I have to admit that I may have downplayed "unless the coders are insane and code specifically for all popular GPUs, it's remotely possible" since it's possible that some major studios will have the resources to pull it off for a lot of people and hence to not sound in the end so rare, but my main point about this having to be hardware-specific remains.
Edited by fateswarm - 9/30/13 at 2:23pm
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post #1036 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

I can tell you have no experience in programming of rendering APIs. They already do that, they already try to be as much low-level as possible, and since the last 7-8 years, the involvement of CPU and RAM is extremely limited (to the point of being non-existent if you compared it to the first versions of the APIs of 20 years ago).
.

Do you? I certainly don't, all I know is that the lower-level the API you use, the less computationally expensive the task.
post #1037 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

Do you? I certainly don't, all I know is that the lower-level the API you use, the less computationally expensive the task.

I'm not an expert but I've done my encyclopedic "training" so to speak on it for a few months. Nowadays (compared to their early days), APIs are written to accommodate GPUs that are monsters that use Pipelines that strive with the most limited amount of data to give the most impressive visual results. e.g. You feed them before even beginning rendering all of the textures, all of the vertices, a ton of programs (called 'shaders' but they are really whole complex programs) that govern how everything looks and they keep adding stages that shape those objects and in general, the involvement of the CPU and RAM is extremely limited compared to only 7-8 years ago, and it makes it apparent that a new API has to go to the hardware to make much more sense.
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post #1038 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You can crossfire on PCI-e 2.0 x4 with "only" a minimal impact of maybe 10%.

PCI-e 2.0 x8 has zero impact.

So my ass it's saturated. We aren't even close.
This is actually where more cards hurts more.

As you offload more and more data, you start to need more and more bandwidth. It never gets as bad as 100% more or anything, but with 3-card crossfire, you need enough bandwidth to handle 40hz out of the 60. With Quadfire you'll need 45hz out of the 60.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
For 1080 60hz you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 237MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 316MB/s (for the first card, 158MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 356MB/s (for the first card, 118MB/s for the others)

For 1440 60hz or 1080 120hz you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 474MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 632MB/s (for the first card, 316MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 712MB/s (for the first card, 237MB/s for the others)

For 1080 60hz eyefinity you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 711MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 948MB/s (for the first card, 474MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 1068MB/s (for the first card, 356MB/s for the others)

For 4k 60hz eyefinity you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 948MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 1264MB/s (for the first card, 632MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 1424MB/s (for the first card, 474MB/s for the others)

For 1440 60hz eyefinity you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 1422MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 1896MB/s (for the first card, 948MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 2136MB/s (for the first card, 712MB/s for the others)

Note how even with Quadfire 1440 Eyefinity at 60hz it's -still- only PCI-e 2.0 x4 worth of bandwidth. That's x2 of PCI-e 3.0. And this isn't for every card, this is only for the first card displaying the image. That leaves a full x6 worth of bandwidth with PCI-e 3.0 x8. More than enough.

You could easily get away with 3.0 x8 (or 2.0 x16) for the first card and 3.0 x4 (or 2.0 x8) on the others with extreme resolutions and be fine. SB-e/Ivy-e users have nothing to fear at all. SB/Ivy/Haswell users don't have enough lanes to really Quadfire without a PLX chip (which fixes the problem anyway), and AMD users probably shouldn't be doing more than Tri-fire anyway.
No Intel Extreme/Xeon user will have any problems at all with this, even in Quadfire. thumb.gif

So if I wanted to crossfire a 7950 and a 7970 ( instead of picking up a R9 290x) on a mobo with 16x and 4x would it be better to put the 7970 in the 4x slot to make up for the smaller bandwidth and how big of a resolution could it handle, eyefinity or 4k?
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post #1039 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You can crossfire on PCI-e 2.0 x4 with "only" a minimal impact of maybe 10%.

PCI-e 2.0 x8 has zero impact.

So my ass it's saturated. We aren't even close.
This is actually where more cards hurts more.

As you offload more and more data, you start to need more and more bandwidth. It never gets as bad as 100% more or anything, but with 3-card crossfire, you need enough bandwidth to handle 40hz out of the 60. With Quadfire you'll need 45hz out of the 60.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
For 1080 60hz you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 237MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 316MB/s (for the first card, 158MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 356MB/s (for the first card, 118MB/s for the others)

For 1440 60hz or 1080 120hz you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 474MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 632MB/s (for the first card, 316MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 712MB/s (for the first card, 237MB/s for the others)

For 1080 60hz eyefinity you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 711MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 948MB/s (for the first card, 474MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 1068MB/s (for the first card, 356MB/s for the others)

For 4k 60hz eyefinity you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 948MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 1264MB/s (for the first card, 632MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 1424MB/s (for the first card, 474MB/s for the others)

For 1440 60hz eyefinity you need:
1 Card: no bandwidth.
2 Card: 1422MB/s (per card)
3 Card: 1896MB/s (for the first card, 948MB/s for the others)
4 Card: 2136MB/s (for the first card, 712MB/s for the others)

Note how even with Quadfire 1440 Eyefinity at 60hz it's -still- only PCI-e 2.0 x4 worth of bandwidth. That's x2 of PCI-e 3.0. And this isn't for every card, this is only for the first card displaying the image. That leaves a full x6 worth of bandwidth with PCI-e 3.0 x8. More than enough.

You could easily get away with 3.0 x8 (or 2.0 x16) for the first card and 3.0 x4 (or 2.0 x8) on the others with extreme resolutions and be fine. SB-e/Ivy-e users have nothing to fear at all. SB/Ivy/Haswell users don't have enough lanes to really Quadfire without a PLX chip (which fixes the problem anyway), and AMD users probably shouldn't be doing more than Tri-fire anyway.
No Intel Extreme/Xeon user will have any problems at all with this, even in Quadfire. thumb.gif

So if I wanted to crossfire a 7950 and a 7970 ( instead of picking up a R9 290x) on a mobo with 16x and 4x would it be better to put the 7970 in the 4x slot to make up for the smaller bandwidth and how big of a resolution could it handle, eyefinity or 4k?

What?

Ok, first off, I will never ever tell someone it's a good idea to run a strong GPU on a 2.0 x4.

Second, all those numbers are for on-board crossfire, so R9-290 and R9-290X only. All 7k series cards require a crossfire bridge, and while I'm sure I could find some documentation, I really don't want to do that math.

Lastly, you always want the stronger card on top in asymmetrical crossfire, because in the occasional case that the game does not support crossfire, you want the most GPU power available.

Also, these bandwidth numbers have nothing to do with what the cards themselves can produce, only the theoretical requirements for inter-card communication based on the bandwidth being run. It wouldn't matter if you were using 7970s or 7770s, they would need that bandwidth under those scenarios.
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post #1040 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

What?

Ok, first off, I will never ever tell someone it's a good idea to run a strong GPU on a 2.0 x4.

Second, all those numbers are for on-board crossfire, so R9-290 and R9-290X only. All 7k series cards require a crossfire bridge, and while I'm sure I could find some documentation, I really don't want to do that math.

Lastly, you always want the stronger card on top in asymmetrical crossfire, because in the occasional case that the game does not support crossfire, you want the most GPU power available.

Also, these bandwidth numbers have nothing to do with what the cards themselves can produce, only the theoretical requirements for inter-card communication based on the bandwidth being run. It wouldn't matter if you were using 7970s or 7770s, they would need that bandwidth under those scenarios.

And this, kids, is why you put your better card if each card equal but one clocks better or your highest end card if assymetrical crossfire in the x16 slot, which usually is the topmost pcie one.
    
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