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SSD on Intel ICH7 and TRIM - Page 2

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

AHCI only. Not IDE. Where you ever got the idea that it works in IDE (let alone not notice the snail like speed) is just false

It could also be supported or not by the chipset or drivers or OS. Either way update the chipset drivers
Also make sure Intel ICH7 is appearing under IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers

Short answer, TRIM can work in IDE mode, but the type of IDE mode matters. Compatibility or Enhanced?

As in all thing computer related, the simpler and less specific a question is, the more chance there is the answer will be not be accurate. There are too many details that cannot be left out if a complete answer is required. Add to that how the IDE option is implemented in the BIOS, and documented in the manual, which can leave you with missing information. That is why the safe, simple answer is, TRIM only works in AHCI mode. But that is not 100% true, AHCI is not required to have TRIM.

The TRIM command is part of the (S)ATA protocol, and is not part of the AHCI specifications. SATA and AHCI are separate things, that work together.

AHCI needs SATA, but SATA does not need AHCI. SATA drives work in IDE mode, right?

IDE mode that is set to "Compatibility", should run the drive in an emulated, old fashioned IDE/PATA mode. Translating TRIM into PATA, UDMA, DMA, etc, won't happen. So no TRIM here.

IDE mode set to "Enhanced" but offering no other options, should be SATA without AHCI (or RAID.) TRIM should work here.

The potential problem with IDE is if no sub-mode is offered (Enhanced, Compatibility), then what is being used? This is one of the main reasons that "TRIM in AHCI only" became "true", when the TRIM support question for SSDs was significant when SSDs first became available. That was about three years ago, and consider the boards people had at that time, go back another three years or more.

When SSD manufactures suggested using AHCI drivers, mainly for NCQ and hot swapping support, people read TRIM into that as well.

The earliest versions of Intel's old Matrix Storage RAID/AHCI driver were programmed before the SATA version that added TRIM, so TRIM did not work with them. Most people only thought of the Matrix Storage driver as a RAID driver, since AHCI was still fairly new.

Intel then released a new version of the Matrix Storage driver they labeled as AHCI/RAID that also supported the new SATA version with TRIM, and basically said, "here's our new AHCI driver with TRIM...", yet another connection between AHCI and TRIM that really did not exist.

If we are still confused about this now, imagine what it was like three years ago. The "knowledge" that TRIM is only provided by AHCI has been spread across the Internet since that time. There is some truth in that knowledge, and you'll never go wrong telling someone to use AHCI mode and an AHCI driver to have TRIM. But given the right circumstances, TRIM works in IDE mode.
post #12 of 15
Use Crystaldiskinfo to check
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post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

Short answer, TRIM can work in IDE mode, but the type of IDE mode matters. Compatibility or Enhanced?

As in all thing computer related, the simpler and less specific a question is, the more chance there is the answer will be not be accurate. There are too many details that cannot be left out if a complete answer is required. Add to that how the IDE option is implemented in the BIOS, and documented in the manual, which can leave you with missing information. That is why the safe, simple answer is, TRIM only works in AHCI mode. But that is not 100% true, AHCI is not required to have TRIM.

The TRIM command is part of the (S)ATA protocol, and is not part of the AHCI specifications. SATA and AHCI are separate things, that work together.

AHCI needs SATA, but SATA does not need AHCI. SATA drives work in IDE mode, right?

IDE mode that is set to "Compatibility", should run the drive in an emulated, old fashioned IDE/PATA mode. Translating TRIM into PATA, UDMA, DMA, etc, won't happen. So no TRIM here.

IDE mode set to "Enhanced" but offering no other options, should be SATA without AHCI (or RAID.) TRIM should work here.

The potential problem with IDE is if no sub-mode is offered (Enhanced, Compatibility), then what is being used? This is one of the main reasons that "TRIM in AHCI only" became "true", when the TRIM support question for SSDs was significant when SSDs first became available. That was about three years ago, and consider the boards people had at that time, go back another three years or more.

When SSD manufactures suggested using AHCI drivers, mainly for NCQ and hot swapping support, people read TRIM into that as well.

The earliest versions of Intel's old Matrix Storage RAID/AHCI driver were programmed before the SATA version that added TRIM, so TRIM did not work with them. Most people only thought of the Matrix Storage driver as a RAID driver, since AHCI was still fairly new.

Intel then released a new version of the Matrix Storage driver they labeled as AHCI/RAID that also supported the new SATA version with TRIM, and basically said, "here's our new AHCI driver with TRIM...", yet another connection between AHCI and TRIM that really did not exist.

If we are still confused about this now, imagine what it was like three years ago. The "knowledge" that TRIM is only provided by AHCI has been spread across the Internet since that time. There is some truth in that knowledge, and you'll never go wrong telling someone to use AHCI mode and an AHCI driver to have TRIM. But given the right circumstances, TRIM works in IDE mode.

So with SATA mode set to 'Enhanced' as pictured in my last post (that's my actual BIOS), there should be no problem with TRIM then.
Edited by Oubadah - 10/1/13 at 3:11am
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post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Got the SSD installed on the ICH7 today, Windows 7 clean install.

DisableDeleteNotify was configured correctly by default.



And then the real test:



TRIM is working fine.

Here's a benchmark if you're wondering what it performs like on the antiquated board:



So for the record, it was a Crucial M4 (64GB) on a Gigabyte G41-ES2L ICH7 motherboard using the default drivers provided by Windows 7:




BIOS setting:


Edited by Oubadah - 10/1/13 at 3:32am
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post #15 of 15
Thank you, Oubadah! Your posting pointed me directly to the reason why the TRIM command wasn't passed through the SATA-controller of the Asus P5G41T-M LX.




The AMIBIOS screen of the P5G41T-M LX is a bit different to your screen.

"Storage Configuration" allows you to set or change the configurations for the SATA devices installed in the system.

ATA/IDE Configuration is set to [Enhanced] by default.
Enhanced Mode Support On is set to [S-ATA] by default and should be switched to [S-ATA+P-ATA] to activate the TRIM command. For some reason, TRIM stays activated if you switch back to [S-ATA] once it has kicked in (check it with trimcheck after reboot). Maybe there is sort of a communications problem between OS, ICH7 southbridge, and SSD controller.




For further reading on storage configuration of the Asus P5G41T-M LX mainboard:
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/415096/Asus-P5g41t-M-Lx.html?page=46
Edited by sebnew - 11/16/15 at 3:37am
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