Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [eurogamer] Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[eurogamer] Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects - Page 7

post #61 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

Just a correction. GDDR5 ain't the same that DDR5. GDDR5, actually, is a modified DDR3, mainly used for graphical purposes.
Well I used it in programming. It doesn't behave like DDR3. it's faster and had higher latencies.
post #62 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

Yes, Sony's API is supposedly a bit more involved however I HIGHLY doubt (would almost go as far to say "know") that it's any where near as difficult as programming for the ESRAM.

With the ESRAM you actually have to sit there and program what resources go to it, how to clean it out in a timely manner, etc...the PS4 API just isn't as robust...but that's not to say it's difficult. Just not as easy.

Also the lack of DirectX isn't as BIG a step as you think. OpenGL is easy to use and just simply...yeah...isn't that big of a deal.

Also, all games (except maybe 2D indie titles) will have to utilize the ESRAM in order to keep up with some level of decent performance. Running the CPU and GPU solely off the DDR3 RAM without using the ESRAM would be a very bad thing for performance.

I feel like you're just trying to find problems where there are none. You seem intelligent so I don't want to put you in my category of "don't knows or fan boy" but you're making it hard on me.

This isn't true at all. Microsoft has already clearly stated that putting resources in and clearing out from esRAM is handled automatically. Developers have the choice of manually allocating, which may improve performance and such, but they don't have to. This means it is just as easy to program as if there were no esRAM.

From what I've read and seen, the XBone will be easier to developer for than the PS4.

http://www.giantbomb.com/xbox-one/3045-145/forums/x1-esram-dx-11-2-from-32mb-to-6gb-worth-of-texture-1448545/
Edited by Ryude - 9/23/13 at 6:13pm
Mini ITX
(15 items)
 
AMD FX
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 4670K 4.6GHz @ 1.22v MSI Z87I Sapphire Radeon 7950 825/1250 @ 1.00v Crucial Ballistix Elite 1600MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Plextor M5P Xtreme 128GB Western Digital Blue 1TB Corsair H60 (2013 Edition) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HP 2311x Logitech K200 Silverstone Strider Gold ST55F-G Fractal Design Node 304 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zalman M350 Zalman P500 Sennheiser HD428s 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300 @ 4.5GHz Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3 HIS Radeon 7770 Ghz Edition G.Skill 1333MHz 2x4GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Crucial m4 64GB Sony DVD-RW Xigmatek Gaia sd1283 Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HP 2311x Logitech Rosewill Hive 550 Lian-Li PC-K58 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G400 Razer Kabuto Creative T40 
  hide details  
Reply
Mini ITX
(15 items)
 
AMD FX
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 4670K 4.6GHz @ 1.22v MSI Z87I Sapphire Radeon 7950 825/1250 @ 1.00v Crucial Ballistix Elite 1600MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Plextor M5P Xtreme 128GB Western Digital Blue 1TB Corsair H60 (2013 Edition) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HP 2311x Logitech K200 Silverstone Strider Gold ST55F-G Fractal Design Node 304 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Zalman M350 Zalman P500 Sennheiser HD428s 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300 @ 4.5GHz Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3 HIS Radeon 7770 Ghz Edition G.Skill 1333MHz 2x4GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Crucial m4 64GB Sony DVD-RW Xigmatek Gaia sd1283 Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HP 2311x Logitech Rosewill Hive 550 Lian-Li PC-K58 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G400 Razer Kabuto Creative T40 
  hide details  
Reply
post #63 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryude View Post

This isn't true at all. Microsoft has already clearly stated that putting resources in and clearing out from esRAM is handled automatically. Developers have the choice of manually allocating, which may improve performance and such, but they don't have to. This means it is just as easy to program as if there were no esRAM.

From what I've read and seen, the XBone will be easier to developer for than the PS4.

http://www.giantbomb.com/xbox-one/3045-145/forums/x1-esram-dx-11-2-from-32mb-to-6gb-worth-of-texture-1448545/
Not sure how that'll play out in xboxs life time, but that was a very very insightful article.
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
post #64 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryude View Post

This isn't true at all. Microsoft has already clearly stated that putting resources in and clearing out from esRAM is handled automatically. Developers have the choice of manually allocating, which may improve performance and such, but they don't have to. This means it is just as easy to program as if there were no esRAM.

From what I've read and seen, the XBone will be easier to developer for than the PS4.

http://www.giantbomb.com/xbox-one/3045-145/forums/x1-esram-dx-11-2-from-32mb-to-6gb-worth-of-texture-1448545/

I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree.

For one this says nothing on the topic of whether or not this makes programming easier. That's something you're just assuming (why?).

Secondly, while this IS cool, I fail to really understand, and maybe this is a limit with myself, why this really matters. OK, so this can effectively store GB's of textures in 16MB of ESRAM. Awesome. Still doesn't take away from the fact that the PS4 still has like 5GB of GDDR5 RAM for it's own textures. Still doesn't take away the fact that graphics RAM is there mainly for textures. Is MS just going to let it's GB's of DDR3 sit idle?

Also we can't jump a head of ourselves and assume that something like this can't ever come to OpenGL. Granted the PS4 isn't using DX11.2, however, the GPU is still DX11.2 compatible. Not like AMD removed DX from the GPU's architecture. tongue.gif OpenGL is constantly changing and developers and Sony I'm sure are working to make it just simply do more...so who knows?

So yeah, like I said, cool tech here. But the PS4 still has more than enough RAM for more textures than the GPU could handle adequately and, again, this doesn't point what so ever to the Xbox One being easier to develop for...if anything it seems like more work and time.

IF you can find me a developer that claims the Xbox One is easier than the PS4 then I'm all ears, but based on my research and what I've read the complete opposite seems to be true.

Also I apologize if I'm coming off as biased here, I'm really not trying to. As I mentioned before I more or less take part in these conversations just for the technical aspects, not because I have a console bias...I really don't personally give a hoot. I just try my hardest to clear up what I see as being misconceptions and what not.
The Sleeper
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K @ 4.4GHz Asrock X99M Killer XFX 290X AIO Cooled with dual Nidec Beta V's EVGA 16GB DDR4-2800 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Vertex 4 128GB Western Digital Green 1TB 2.5" Hitachi 500GB x 2 in RAID 0 CPU - Corsair H70 with dual Nidec Beta V's 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Enterprise x64 Asus PB287Q 4K Razer BlackWindow Chroma EVGA 1300 Watt 80PLUS Gold  
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Cooler Master N200 Logitech G700s XTRAC PADS Ripper XXL Mouse Pad Headphones: Baldoor E100 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
AudioTrak ImAmp headphone amp Creative X-Fi 5.1 USB (for headphones) JVC SEA-33 10-band equalizer (for headphones) Receiver: Denon AVR-1610 
AudioAudio
Fronts: Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 Subwoofer: BIC America V1020 
  hide details  
Reply
The Sleeper
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K @ 4.4GHz Asrock X99M Killer XFX 290X AIO Cooled with dual Nidec Beta V's EVGA 16GB DDR4-2800 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Vertex 4 128GB Western Digital Green 1TB 2.5" Hitachi 500GB x 2 in RAID 0 CPU - Corsair H70 with dual Nidec Beta V's 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Enterprise x64 Asus PB287Q 4K Razer BlackWindow Chroma EVGA 1300 Watt 80PLUS Gold  
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Cooler Master N200 Logitech G700s XTRAC PADS Ripper XXL Mouse Pad Headphones: Baldoor E100 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
AudioTrak ImAmp headphone amp Creative X-Fi 5.1 USB (for headphones) JVC SEA-33 10-band equalizer (for headphones) Receiver: Denon AVR-1610 
AudioAudio
Fronts: Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 Subwoofer: BIC America V1020 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [eurogamer] Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects