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[Gizmodo] Memory Chips Are the Most Expensive They've Been in Two Years - Page 7

post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

ahhh.... by law, it's NOT an admission of guilt or wrongdoing. It literally and explicitly is EXACTLY NOT what you are claiming it be. I mean you are utterly, categorically, and legally wrong. I mean you're not even close to being correct. A settlement by itself is absolutely NOT an admission of guilt. PERIOD without question. If you do question it, then go learn some law....

There are plenty of reasons to not price fix..... the law, increase government oversight, development of other technologies...

Yes, Hynix profits increase in Q2.... due to increase mobile LP and server ECC DRAM sales combined with the maturing of a smaller node. We're talking about desktop RAM here.....

If a company agrees to a 50+ million dollar settlement when some accuses them of price fixing, they were probably guilty of price fixing, That's what common sense tells me.
In the ATI/Nividia case, 1.7 million was cheaper then simply proving yourself innocent..

Not really. in the ATI/Nividia case emails had basically proven them guilty and they still just got a slap on the wrist.
Companies only care about money, if they can make profit by breaking laws and think they will not get caught, they will do so. Companies only advance technologies when can make money on it, or not doing so cuts into profit margins.

Price fixing happens often, Asian companies are probably the worst and they are the ones making all the electronics.
A few months ago Sanyo, Panasonic, and LG Admitted guilt to price fixing car parts and laptop battery cells.
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post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmudeus View Post

If a company agrees to a 50+ million dollar settlement when some accuses them of price fixing, they were probably guilty of price fixing, That's what common sense tells me.
In the ATI/Nividia case, 1.7 million was cheaper then simply proving yourself innocent..

Not really. in the ATI/Nividia case emails had basically proven them guilty and they still just got a slap on the wrist.
Companies only care about money, if they can make profit by breaking laws and think they will not get caught, they will do so. Companies only advance technologies when can make money on it, or not doing so cuts into profit margins.

Price fixing happens often, Asian companies are probably the worst and they are the ones making all the electronics.
A few months ago Sanyo, Panasonic, and LG Admitted guilt to price fixing car parts and laptop battery cells.

$50M is an absolute value.... but settlements are relative in value. What's $50M to a $3B case?

In fact, the law and businesses says otherwise. i.e. BoA settled $165M without admitting fault over credit unions. The reason was that going to court and being found guilty would incur an even larger settlement.... plus open them up to civil suits. Actually, the SEC's new policy is stop taking no-fault settlements.

Actually, the ATI/Nividia case was not that black and white.... the law rarely is. Were the email correspondents in a powerful enough position? What impact did it have on consumers in dollar amounts?

Technically, the purpose of a corporation is not to make money. Their purpose is to increase value which many not always be just cash. Damaging your image may cost more than $100M. Of course, companies spend money on R&D and capital when there is a good ROI... that makes absolute sense. Actually, companies that do not advance technologies because its "cuts into profit margins" are probably too big and stuck in their ways.... see Kodak, Nokia, ect.

More companies have been guilty of colluding on car parts... they all agreed to not out bid each other on contracts for like a decade.
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post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

$50M is an absolute value.... but settlements are relative in value. What's $50M to a $3B case?

In fact, the law and businesses says otherwise. i.e. BoA settled $165M without admitting fault over credit unions. The reason was that going to court and being found guilty would incur an even larger settlement.... plus open them up to civil suits. Actually, the SEC's new policy is stop taking no-fault settlements.

Actually, the ATI/Nividia case was not that black and white.... the law rarely is. Were the email correspondents in a powerful enough position? What impact did it have on consumers in dollar amounts?

Technically, the purpose of a corporation is not to make money. Their purpose is to increase value which many not always be just cash. Damaging your image may cost more than $100M. Of course, companies spend money on R&D and capital when there is a good ROI... that makes absolute sense. Actually, companies that do not advance technologies because its "cuts into profit margins" are probably too big and stuck in their ways.... see Kodak, Nokia, ect.

More companies have been guilty of colluding on car parts... they all agreed to not out bid each other on contracts for like a decade.

My point was that if the accusation amount is more then to defend yourself in court and the accused companies settled on that price, said company is probably guilty.

So, in that specific case, it was in fact an admission of guilt. Maybe not legally, but factually it was.

Senior vice president and executive vice president.

Aren't value and money pretty much the same thing here? If you make more profits, that's more money you can put into the expansion of your business. If they were so concerned about appearance, why not fight the claims leveled against in price fixing cases? If they were innocent they should have no problem proving themselves innocent. Winning cases of price fixing allegations looks much better then a cop out settlement, wouldn't you agree? The most logical conclusion it that most companies who settle on price fixing cases are in fact guilty, and it is much better to settle for them financially and image wise, then enter a court room and be made total fools of.

It's actually much worse then that. Just a few weeks ago 20 Japanese auto parts companies plead guilty to price fixing auto parts that go into US cars. Costing US citizens over 5 billion dollars and the Japanese companies don't even have to pay back even a third of it in fines. Only 21 executives will receive jail time and the sentences are only about a year.
Just more proof that price fixing has little to no consequences at all.
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post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmudeus View Post

My point was that if the accusation amount is more then to defend yourself in court and the accused companies settled on that price, said company is probably guilty.

So, in that specific case, it was in fact an admission of guilt. Maybe not legally, but factually it was.

Senior vice president and executive vice president.

Aren't value and money pretty much the same thing here? If you make more profits, that's more money you can put into the expansion of your business. If they were so concerned about appearance, why not fight the claims leveled against in price fixing cases? If they were innocent they should have no problem proving themselves innocent. Winning cases of price fixing allegations looks much better then a cop out settlement, wouldn't you agree? The most logical conclusion it that most companies who settle on price fixing cases are in fact guilty, and it is much better to settle for them financially and image wise, then enter a court room and be made total fools of.

It's actually much worse then that. Just a few weeks ago 20 Japanese auto parts companies plead guilty to price fixing auto parts that go into US cars. Costing US citizens over 5 billion dollars and the Japanese companies don't even have to pay back even a third of it in fines. Only 21 executives will receive jail time and the sentences are only about a year.
Just more proof that price fixing has little to no consequences at all.
Actually, there's much more to consider than just the cost to "defend yourself in court".... the analysis requires vastly more nuance. i.e. What's the impact on company image? Will the company benefit from vindication?

Senior vice president and executive vice president.... of what? There are literally hundreds of VPs in any large company.

No, value and money are technically NOT the same. If you make more profits, a company may decide to give money back to investors (dividends) or invest in cash-like securities (saving it in a war chest). Again, it's not that simple. Even if you are (mostly) innocent, there are many more factors that have to be considered before proceeding to trial. The world of business and law is not so neat and simple. There are vast amount of things to consider.... are we actually guilty or not? Is there enough evidence? Can we get the evidence? How much would it take to go through a few hundred thousand emails?

Yup, that's the case I had heard about.
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post #65 of 67
Just today arrived my new chips:
I decided to not taking chance of RAM going up even more, and considering it will not fall down too much in next two months and considering these are not manufactured at all. I tried to find the last few that were still available.

Now waiting a month for RIVE BE.
post #66 of 67
Um Duckie... HI .. it's me again.... Remember you calling me out saying there wouldn't be price fixing?



I'm back... Price fixing... :-) You have to admit this is about the shoddiest excuse to raise prices we've heard of yet. The fire was in a non critical part of the plant LOL thumb.gif
 
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post #67 of 67
A 16GB kit is coming up as a SS deal on Newegg here in about 3 hours. Curious to see the price...

EDIT: $115 frown.gif
Edited by Dyson Poindexter - 10/8/13 at 10:18am
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