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AMD MANTLE Discussion Thread - Page 196

post #1951 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazilianloser View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post



Try Ctrl + Alt + Delete next time black screen occurs then open task manager I have gotten this issue before about black screen but still have cursor sometimes you have to do so a few times sometimes have to choose log off option then log back in not reboot it is a bug with windows 7 it all started like 3-5 months back have had this on many machines not even running beta 14.2 or 14.1 drivers but 13.2 and earlier full drivers and so on it has to do with windows 7 itself and eyefinity and in some cases on non eyefinity setups but machines with multiple screens.

On W8 and yes all the common ways out of simple problems were attempted... No matter if I went into task manager, or changed settings on ccc or even in windows the two outside screens would stay dark. Only upon reboot they would come back on but after such Eyefinity would no longer work. Its not a big deal so far but thank you sir for the opinions though.


I didnt know it also affected windows 8 as I refuse to use windows 8 and absolutely cant stand that abomination of a OS Microsoft was just to cunfused on whether it was a phone / netbook OS or a proper OS for desktop / laptop hince metro and so many other things that make it a total pain to deal with.


I have had customers buy windows 8 64bit for theyre fresh builds against my advice only to return a week or so later begging me to put windows 7 64bit on theyre machines and a few times they flat out give me the windows 8 key and disk and tell me to do whatever I want with it they dont ever want to see or use it again that is saying something.

I want to add windows 8 is just so hard to deal with add to it alot of things wont work or run on it and the hassle all around they turned the idea of an OS on its head then beat its face in thinking that was its butt trying to spank it into completion to make it function properly as a OS and as a power user / gamer windows 8 is a joke.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 3/9/14 at 10:05am
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post #1952 of 2769
I don't mind windows 8.1, not that big of a deal actually. I haven't had issues as far as the OS goes, for anything I wanted to do yet. Not trying to invalidate what you said, just saying my experience so far has been fine, but I also don't do that much with my PC other than render some video, surf the net, and play games.
post #1953 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by quakermaas View Post

Mantle has memory problems and most likely you have blasted through the memory limit, test at 100% scale, msaa off and take it from there.

The commandDrender.drawscreeninfo 1  when using Mantle now shows how much vram is being used on each card.r

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

I also want to point out again trifire is very buggy with BF4 and even worse with Mantle it is beta they just added 2 card crossfire support officially with 14.2 so 3 card might be later on. I also want to point out Mantle even if only using 2 of the 3 cards in crossfire will act buggy unless 3rd card is physically removed from system so disabling it in CCC wont work Mantle will still try to associate the 3rd card causing all kinds of odd issues. I was told this directly from AMD hince me running only 2 cards otherwise I would have went 3 cards given had option to buy triX OC R9 290X for $575 a few days ago new.

Thanks for the info. I found a workaround by playing BF4 32bit and not the 64bit version. I don't really know what difference that makes. But BF4 worked and at these settings with Mantle, I'm getting some awesome performance.

Edit: rick, From GPU Z it seems like the third card was being utilized but since I've run into many problems using trixx as my OC tool and AB to monitor, I have stopped using AB's OSD so I can't say for certain if 2 or 3 card use was there.

3 290x OCd
4770k @ 4.4
1440p 110hz,
Ultra all
4x MSAA
150% res scale








and finally some 4k ultra smooth goodness (open in new tab for full res)




Minor problems, I am running into are:

1. If I change any graphic setting in the Video section with api, resolution MSAA I have to do a full restart of the game because the frame rate drops to like 10 for some reason. When I start it again with the new settings it works as it should

2. Parts of BF4 like huge explosions really take a hit on FPS and they come down to like 20 for a split second.

Still going to play around with it more but 14.2 seems like a better effort compared to 14.1
Edited by phallacy - 3/9/14 at 4:33pm
post #1954 of 2769
I found out CPU power management (C3/C6/C7) can interfere Mantle performance. If anyone seeing Mantle not performing properly, I recommend try disabled CPU power management as well as core parking.

These what I got with Mantle when CPU power management is enabled.
Frame Time



FPS



BF4, Zavod 311 64 player map (half player), 1080p Ultra settings (AA & AA POST OFF), 200% resolution scale, 2 x 290's Crossfire, CPU power management disabled

Frame Time - DirectX



Frame Time - Mantle

(continued)




FPS - DirectX
MIN :25.52974215
MAX :154.5595054
AVERAGE :79.01253821




FPS - Mantle
MIN :23.7586125
MAX :190.4761905
AVERAGE :90.6788262

(continued)

Edited by kizwan - 3/10/14 at 2:41pm
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post #1955 of 2769
Wow never thought c states would effect it, have to check when I get home.
post #1956 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by the9quad View Post

Wow never thought c states would effect it, have to check when I get home.



I thought nearly all gamers disabled core parking out of habit because it is very often performance hindering for gamers alot also c states can be brought on in between needed loads this brings latency up because cores have to throttle the clocks up hince why 90% of gamers disable all eco features for gaming along with disabling core parking it flat out brings better stable results across board even when running DirectX on nearly all games.This is all something major gamers have known and always disabled for gaming reasons. I didnt mention these because these are a well known issue for gamers and have been for years and most would say common knowledge to know about and disable for gaming reasons. I know nearly all game testers / hardware testers automatically disable the Cstates and core parking automatically before doing any testing at all to get solid test results for AMD users for gaming reasons they disable AMD Cool N Quiet and then disable core parking.


best way to explain this is drive one of the chrysler cars down interstate on cruise with the V8 that shuts off 4 or 2 cylinders when not needed every time the cruise makes the engine have to work you get a rough jerky surge where it lags to pickup the presently shutdown cylinders. I know many with the chrysler 300's and such that took them back to dealership and had that eco feature disabled because it seriously impacted the performance of the car even when using cruise on flat ground and caused alot of surging / jerky feeling under slight acceleration on cruise making many think something was wrong or broken on the cars. The reason I used this analogy is core parking and C states do exactly the same thing imagine the car situation but with the PC while gaming do you not see how that would affect results / performance and make tests irradic and unpredictable and flat out unreliable.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 3/11/14 at 4:30am
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post #1957 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by the9quad View Post

Wow never thought c states would effect it, have to check when I get home.
I always play games with C-states enabled. In games, as far as I know the games was running smooth. Only when you generate a report like Frame Time, then you'll see the difference. As far as games experience, both (settings) are smooth to me. The only time I disabled C-states is when benching & I guess this include generating Frame Time report for Mantle.

BTW, I already ran a couple of test using DirectX & I didn't see any difference between C-states enabled vs. disabled. Look like DirectX is "immune" to C-states.
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post #1958 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by the9quad View Post

Wow never thought c states would effect it, have to check when I get home.

This might be the missing link for you eh? smile.gif


I actually have all my c states disabled as well so it might affect both AMD and Intel.
 
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post #1959 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

This might be the missing link for you eh? smile.gif


I actually have all my c states disabled as well so it might affect both AMD and Intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post





I thought nearly all gamers disabled core parking out of habit because it is very often performance hindering for gamers alot also c states can be brought on in between needed loads this brings latency up because cores have to throttle the clocks up hince why 90% of gamers disable all eco features for gaming along with disabling core parking it flat out brings better stable results across board even when running DirectX on nearly all games.This is all something major gamers have known and always disabled for gaming reasons. I didnt mention these because these are a well known issue for gamers and have been for years and most would say common knowledge to know about and disable for gaming reasons. I know nearly all game testers / hardware testers automatically disable the Cstates and core parking automatically before doing any testing at all to get solid test results for AMD users for gaming reasons they disable AMD Cool N Quiet and then disable core parking.


best way to explain this is drive one of the chrysler cars down interstate on cruise with the V8 the shuts of 4 or 2 cylinders when not needed every time the cruise makes the engine have to work you get a rough jerky surge where it lags to pickup the presently shutdown cylinders. I know many with the chrysler 300's and such that took them back to dealership and had that eco feature disabled because it seriously impacted the performance of the car even when using cruise on flat ground and caused alot of surging / jerky feeling under slight acceleration on cruise making many think something was wrong or broken on the cars. The reason I used this analogy is core parking and C states do exactly the same thing imagine the car situation but with the PC while gaming do you not see how that would affect results / performance and make tests irradic and unpredictable and flat out unreliable.

my cores are not parked rick ( i have it disabled with park control), I am talking about sleep mode (c3).I kind of like sleep mode.. AFAIK, the only way to turn it off is in the bios, so this means if I am going to play BF4, I have to turn it off in the bios, and when I am done reboot and enable it again if I want my pc to go to sleep? Or am I missing something here? honest question.

And, alot of people do not turn off sleep mode state and games run just fine without stuttering. So I am not sure why that is not the case with mantle.

so basically your saying c3 is just as bad as c6? not only do i need to disable core parking but also sleep mode? or am i just confused.
Edited by the9quad - 3/10/14 at 9:37pm
post #1960 of 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by the9quad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

This might be the missing link for you eh? smile.gif


I actually have all my c states disabled as well so it might affect both AMD and Intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post





I thought nearly all gamers disabled core parking out of habit because it is very often performance hindering for gamers alot also c states can be brought on in between needed loads this brings latency up because cores have to throttle the clocks up hince why 90% of gamers disable all eco features for gaming along with disabling core parking it flat out brings better stable results across board even when running DirectX on nearly all games.This is all something major gamers have known and always disabled for gaming reasons. I didnt mention these because these are a well known issue for gamers and have been for years and most would say common knowledge to know about and disable for gaming reasons. I know nearly all game testers / hardware testers automatically disable the Cstates and core parking automatically before doing any testing at all to get solid test results for AMD users for gaming reasons they disable AMD Cool N Quiet and then disable core parking.





best way to explain this is drive one of the chrysler cars down interstate on cruise with the V8 the shuts of 4 or 2 cylinders when not needed every time the cruise makes the engine have to work you get a rough jerky surge where it lags to pickup the presently shutdown cylinders. I know many with the chrysler 300's and such that took them back to dealership and had that eco feature disabled because it seriously impacted the performance of the car even when using cruise on flat ground and caused alot of surging / jerky feeling under slight acceleration on cruise making many think something was wrong or broken on the cars. The reason I used this analogy is core parking and C states do exactly the same thing imagine the car situation but with the PC while gaming do you not see how that would affect results / performance and make tests irradic and unpredictable and flat out unreliable.

my cores are not parked rick ( i have it disabled with park control), I am talking about sleep mode (c3).I kind of like sleep mode.. AFAIK, the only way to turn it off is in the bios, so this means if I am going to play BF4, I have to turn it off in the bios, and when I am done reboot and enable it again if I want my pc to go to sleep? Or am I missing something here? honest question.

And, alot of people do not turn off sleep mode state and games run just fine without stuttering. So I am not sure why that is not the case with mantle.

so basically your saying c3 is just as bad as c6? not only do i need to disable core parking but also sleep mode? or am i just confused.


C states also include the eco feature that does core frequency throttling it goes farther than just sleep mode it is an eco feature that as I stated throttles the core clocks up and down on individual / multiple cores and will do so often when going from a cutscene to game and often will do so on maps with 64 players because not all cores will be loaded enough all the time to keep core frequency at higher performance state / frequency. The transition from low eco clocks to high performance clocks is enough to get a frame latency spike due to core that it is set to render on is in eco state and then has to throttle to performance state Mantle uses all available cores DirectX uses first 2 cores mainly do you not see the difference Mantle would be using the cores that would normal be mainly idle / parked / in eco state and instead of just using 2-4 cores will use any available core for rendering and such it also spreads load out across all available cores.


I want to point out when doing testing you have to weed out the variables again disabling core parking / C states / AMD Cool N Quiet and so on will help get a solid baseline to test with again eliminate possibilities and variables which is the fundamental point of testing so yes disabling these for testing purposes is advisable and worth a shot to weed out possibilities is this not the point of testing as you are doing so yes going into bios turning off eco features / Cstates to test variables and disabling core parking are all within reason for testing purposes and is not asking to much.


I also want to point out Mantle is a different breed truly multi threaded even to point of fully multi threaded rendering is there also unlike DirectX so saying other games and such dont require a setting or different things to be done is like saying what goes up must come down as we both know that fact can be altered. So disabling different things to get Microsoft / games to play nicely with the CPU could easily be Cstate issues because Mantle is a completely new breed and so far is only on 1 game so comparing other games to it and DirectX vs Mantle in the way they act by CPU core usage and such is crazy Mantle uses the CPU cores in a way different way from DirectX / Microsoft normally do so yes C states / core parking / AMD Cool N Quiet could easily cause conflicting issues and any eco feature could because way Mantle works isnt traditional at all.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 3/11/14 at 2:02am
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